US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[oldiebutgoody]

PS: Are you even possibly attempting to now argue that "skill and experience" are considerations to completely disregard? Oh!..Sorry!!...I almost forgot = That's an assumption naturally required of all nic supporters

AND....ALPA supporters as well!

 

[EastUS]

AND....ALPA supporters as well!

Indeed so sir

 

[HPearlyretiree]

"tried to get out of its obligation"

What, like Binding Arbitration?

 

[Tiger 1050]

1) No argument from me that'll EVER dismiss the Will of God in any difficult dealings that end well..or sometimes otherwise. Unlike many out west, who so arrogantly and with such wholesale naievety, are so boastful of their "flawless" safety record...I've known men better than myself who are long dead, and fully realize that "There but for fortune...."/etc

2) Nice try at implied "tarnish"....

Not a night goes by without my sincere expression of gratitude... You perceive the message to be that we are somehow better than east pilots regarding incidents/accidents. First I wholeheartedly agree that we are subject to the same failings as any pilot. We are no better or skilled than the next, generally speaking. However when the east wishes to paint us as "rookies" or "inexperienced" we will point to the most notable axiom and that is accident record. You betray your image of impartiality when you offer the "I've known men better than myself" and yet suggest it could not possibly apply to anyone out west. Just because it's a younger company does not necessarily indicate that's it's pilots are all young and inexperienced as well.

Anyone overly quick to judge without the facts leaves the door open to serious ridicule. To call Sully a hero who single handedly saved the lives of 155 people is quick judgment in my mind. The east and in particular USAPA want to paint this picture of Sully standing tall, chest puffed out, his fists resting on his hips atop his ill-fated ship halfway sunk in the Hudson. All while wearing a giant "S" on his chest. Is that for "Sully?" Or is it for "Savior?"Or simply "Superman?" Anyhow the point I am trying to make is this; You want to call yourself the hero before all the facts are in then you had better accept the idea that the facts may eventually illustrate a whole other picture...

So. Can you tell me what was indicated by the FMA regarding thrust? I am gonna guess it was in speed mode. Pitching over the FADEC will command idle thrust. Without moving the thrust levers to MCT there is no way for Sully to know if he had any thrust available. Was he in Thrust Lock? Surely he knows how to get out of that mode.

You see. These are all things we don't know yet. However we do know per the NTSB that the number 1 engine was idling at 30% N1. What say you? You fly the airbus out of DCA. Right?

 

[Phoenix]

Please explain ...

AHAHAHAHHAHA

 

[Tiger 1050]

PS: Are you even possibly attempting to now argue that "skill and experience" are considerations to completely disregard? Oh!..Sorry!!...I almost forgot = That's an assumption naturally required of all nic supporters

Regarding seniority integration? Yes. That's exactly what I am saying.

Sorry I do not share your inflated ego regarding what it takes to fly an airplane. Somehow that just seems so pompous and little. But then you fine folks seem to define yourself by this profession. Most notably the fact you MUST wear your uniform everywhere you go.

 

[EastUS]

However when the east wishes to paint us as "rookies" or "inexperienced" we will point to the most notable axiom and that is accident record.

You betray your image of impartiality when you offer the "I've known men better than myself" and yet suggest it could not possibly apply to anyone out west.

Just because it's a younger company does not necessarily indicate that's it's pilots are all young and inexperienced as well.

Anyone overly quick to judge without the facts leaves the door open to serious ridicule. To call Sully a hero who single handedly saved the lives of 155 people is quick judgment in my mind.

So. Can you tell me what was indicated by the FMA regarding thrust?

1) Pointing to the accident record is about as proof positive an indication of being "rookies" or "inexperienced" that I can imagine.

2) Said men were USAF comrades in rather "different" circumstances than I'd imagine the west folks to be much familiar with.

3) "does not necessarily indicate that it's pilots are all young and inexperienced" Fair enough...but it's hardly any indication to the contrary, and it's not possible to even dispute that your side wishes to have people who were literally grade school children when east pilots began flying careers, become "senior" to those east people....is it?

4) He's likely the last person to imagine himself a "hero" from that flight, and has always insisted upon recognition for the entire crew.

5) I don't speak Airbii, so I honestly can't help there. Per airliners? I believe that Boeing represents the "one true faith"

 

[EastUS]

Sorry I do not share your inflated ego regarding what it takes to fly an airplane.

Perhaps you've yet to see much in the way of "interesting" issues, environments and circumstances aloft. Hopefully, you'll never need to.

 

[prechilill]

Perhaps you've yet to see much in the way of "interesting" issues, environments and circumstances aloft. Hopefully, you'll never need to.

I seriously doubt you have either.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Perhaps you've yet to see much in the way of "interesting" issues, environments and circumstances aloft. Hopefully, you'll never need to.

I have had my fair share of "situations" while airborne. None of which did I ever feel like a hero. One such incident where we had smoke billowing into the cabin from an unknown source I simply flew the airplane while the Capt and our jumpseaters ran the appropriate checklists. Once on the ground I called my wife and we chatted. No hero. Not one. We all did what we were trained to do. It's akin to my years as a paramedic. You do what you are trained to do. The more critical the situation the easier it is to deal with. What I mean is the little stuff is no longer important. When someone would suggest we save lives we simply offered the notion that no paramedic saves lives. Only surgeons do. We packaged and transported. We prolonged and temporarily manipulated the lives we came in contact with. I have no need to wear any kind of badge of honor. And frankly anyone who needs this attention is petty and suffers "little man" syndrome...

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Sully and Skiles dealt with a situation that they weren't even trained to foresee. I think your "observations" about experience are absolutely ridiculous. It's the split-second decision, tempered by experience, that can mean survival or not. This is NOT a forgiving environment. No matter how much training they give pilots, there will ALWAYS be situations which develop outside of that training. It's the experience and airmanship of the pilots (and crew) which can save or minimize damage and injury.

With your outlook, you really should be looking into another line of work.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I have had my fair share of "situations" while airborne. None of which did I ever feel like a hero. One such incident where we had smoke billowing into the cabin from an unknown source I simply flew the airplane while the Capt and our jumpseaters ran the appropriate checklists. Once on the ground I called my wife and we chatted. No hero. Not one. We all did what we were trained to do. It's akin to my years as a paramedic. You do what you are trained to do. The more critical the situation the easier it is to deal with. What I mean is the little stuff is no longer important. When someone would suggest we save lives we simply offered the notion that no paramedic saves lives. Only surgeons do. We packaged and transported. We prolonged and temporarily manipulated the lives we came in contact with. I have no need to wear any kind of badge of honor. And frankly anyone who needs this attention is petty and suffers "little man" syndrome...

You do know, that many of these surgeons were in grade school when the East Pilots began flying!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You do know, that many of these surgeons were in grade school when the East Pilots began flying!

And only a very experienced one would EVER operate on me. I'd pick a surgeon with 20 years experience over a "newby" any day.

So, your point was?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

And only a very experienced one would EVER operate on me. I'd pick a surgeon with 20 years experience over a "newby" any day.

So, your point was?

Reductio ad absurdum

 

[EastUS]

None of which did I ever feel like a hero.

I don't see that we've any argument on the thought of performing one's duties not equating to being a "hero". I'm quite confident you would hear the same thing from Captain Sullenberger. What's your point here?

No offence, but, if your biggest problem aloft has been a dance with smoke one time...that's very fortunate for you, and I hope it remains so.

I'm not interested in a buncha' chest beating here. Suffice it to say that our respective flying worlds and "upbringing" have been very different, and you've zero right to cavalierly dismiss the experiences of any others, any more than I could claim or be dismissive of your experiences as a paramedic...nor imagine myself your equal there.