US Pilots' Labor Thread 4/28-5/5--NO PERSONAL REMARKS

[HPearlyretiree]

Is Sully going to be carrying an American Flag and give out apple pie to the jurors?

I still think he should bring kittens, everyone loves kittens.

Symbolism, not substance, just another stunt witness.


(personal note, I think Sully is a great pilot and I respect him very much, but to see him being pimped by USAPA in such a transparent way...)

 

[Megasnoop]

Ummm..what's that reasonably tell even the casual reader about how much even Alpa it's self valued it's own perfection of "process"? You know = the very same "process" that your group is nowadays so adamant about forcing acceptance of?..and feels should be so very, very sacred?

3) Agreed, as in Alpa? = NO WAAY!!...umm..but; Who have you seriously got in mind for any viable replacement union? Perhaps the "spartan heros" within "The Army of Leonidas"?...or just "The Local Chapter of The Association of Fairy Godmothers?

Interesting and often amusing times all around...

EastUS, your in rare form today. I got to agree and so does one of their former Merger Committee members who frequently posts on this forum and on others. Well, he almost agrees. He puts the entire blame on ALPA for not doing its job and turning over the arbitrated list and moving on. He claims ALPA alpa bowed to the east, and played games, forming the Rice and blue ribbon committees. Guess he meant Wye River, too, but never mentioned that. According to him, ALPA negotiated against its own merger policy. Cant find any fault there. Wonder where the DFR by the West was against ALPA?

I guess that would make ALPA their bogey-man, too. But forget about all the money ALPA had to lose. Without a single contract, with one side able to veto the other, this would have gone on for years. With our pay raises this winter and our individual shares of the $70M pie, I dont know how ALPA could ever seen the NIC implemented. But then, theyre ALPA. Whats for for the mother ship is good for the mother ship. With PHL in trusteeship and us unable to remove the CLT Reps, Im sure it wouldnt have been long before ALPA controlled the entire MECand gave us a cram-down.

Couple of interesting tidbits from the trial so far. West attorney Ms Flood lost 4 out of 6 Brengle objections today. West Ms Brown didnt fare much better. Its clear how Brengle will be arguing. snoopo

 

[cubfan]

Latest CLT CrewNews just came up on the hub.

Funny how he gave the same answer about the "snapback" to the east as he did to the west. He even added that it was irresponsible of USAPA to be putting out any hint that the east would be seeing those pay raises.

At least your PHL reps have finally figured it out:

It should come as no surprise that the Company has already indicated that they intend to violate LOA 93 regarding the firm end date of pay freezes.

Hope you east guys haven't spent your raises.

And that first payment of $35 million will do just fine covering some of the damages awarded as a result of this trial - should the west prevail of course.

Is that possible? Can they really do it?

Sure can. But make sure you ask your USAPA rep to get the "straight" answer.

Oh, and we're getting the transcripts of the trial over here. I just read USAPA has pulled them for whatever reason.

Wonder what they're hiding?

Who really knows what will happen with the said snapbacks? Now as far as the 2 35mil payouts, That is money owed to the pilot group by the company, that is not money the union has in its coffers. That money would be paid by the company to the pilots as agreed under loa93. The only thing the union has control over is designing a plan of distribution which the east pilots will vote on. Some payments will be paid to those retired, dead, resigned, as well as active. Loa 93 was agreed on long before we ever got into this mess. I hope your group isn't filling your heads with that pipe dream.

 

[toganoflex]

Who really knows what will happen with the said snapbacks? Now as far as the 2 35mil payouts, That is money owed to the pilot group by the company, that is not money the union has in its coffers. That money would be paid by the company to the pilots as agreed under loa93. The only thing the union has control over is designing a plan of distribution which the east pilots will vote on. Some payments will be paid to those retired, dead, resigned, as well as active. Loa 93 was agreed on long before we ever got into this mess. I hope your group isn't filling your heads with that pipe dream.

No distribution method has been devised as of yet.

You can expect more lawsuits from east pilots over this issue.

And the damages will be paid by the east hence to payout is fair game.

I hope you don't think that money is off limits.

 

[cubfan]

No distribution method has been devised as of yet.

You can expect more lawsuits from east pilots over this issue.

And the damages will be paid by the east hence to payout is fair game.

I hope you don't think that money is off limits.

Toga,
The distriution method drafts are just about complete, the only lawsuits you will see would be if the company tried to get out of its obligation, as I said earlier that money will never see the union. The checks will be cut directly to the pilots from the company. If there was a monetary damage, the only part of the 35 mill. you would see would be the dues part the union would keep. This is a dead horse issue, no sense beating it.

 

[EastUS]

I hope you don't think that money is off limits.

None out east would ever dream of not providing the entire world on a platter to the west...as you're demanding. While we all have come to fully understand the true and clear "integrity"/etc of the west's "Righteous Position" wherein none of you folks are sincerely trying to steal anything from the east pilots...Well..Would you care for a full inventory of any and all east pilots' house silverware as well?

 

[toganoflex]

Toga,
The distriution method drafts are just about complete, the only lawsuits you will see would be if the company tried to get out of its obligation, as I said earlier that money will never see the union. The checks will be cut directly to the pilots from the company. If there was a monetary damage, the only part of the 35 mill. you would see would be the dues part the union would keep. This is a dead horse issue, no sense beating it.

They're draft issues and still have to get past the pilot group.

And like I said, all money is fair game.

 

[jetjok1]

There most certainly is a list, produced by and conforming to the unions merger policy, accepted by the company and disregarded by USAPA. On that list I am senior to Skiles. I understand that I may not exercise my seniority until there is a joint contract, but right now I am senior to Skiles. If USAPA gets their way that will be gone and Skiles will be senior to me and will have successfully stolen my postion.

I would like to state for the board that I did not seek the MEC chairmans identity. It is 12 miles from my garage to the employee parking lot and I have not jumpseated more than 3 times in the last 5 years. However, I am trying to do something about denials, because I do not think it right.

Well, that's 3 in the last 2 weeks (and that's only the ones I know about) so you and your fellow pilots have to work harder at it. I had your Assistant CP on my jumpseat the other day (which I will give anyone, qualified, without reservation) and he pulls these deniers in, has a chat , and they go on their way. IMHO, that is not enough. Something needs to be done about this. It puts a tremendous strain on those folks trying to get to work. I can't believe grown men and women can't put differences aside to do something that is just plain right. Heck, don't talk to them. I'd even let the Mesa pilot back on my jumpseat who broke a NO GO item circuit breaker (2 hour delay on a redeye) and no apology. I won't even apply to a West j/s. I've been denied and I will now make other arrangements. It's really sad it's come to this.

 

[jetjok1]

I have a feeling that Sully's testimony could REALLY backfire on usapa. He is not effected by the Nic at all. He IS effected by the lack of a new contract. He IS effected by separate operations. His commute to CLT is MUCH more challenging than say to PHX or LAS.

He could just say that the formation of usapa has been a complete disaster as far as he is concerned. For nearly two years, since the Nic was determined, he has basically been stuck in the mud. With limited years left, that in and of itself, IS a big deal.

The West laywers likely are looking forward to getting him on the stand.

IMHO, I don't think Sully's testimony has anything to do with the Nic effect (or lack thereof) on him. I don't think, at this stage any of your other reasons apply, as well, because I don't think Sully is returning to flying (my opinion). I think what his thoughts are, like mine, are the about the effect the Nic would have on the fine aviators that he and I and others fly with every trip. I've always said from before day 1 that I don't know if USAPA was the answer- I only know ALPA no longer wasn't! And, I'll be brutally honest. I still don't know the answer.

 

[cubfan]

They're draft issues and still have to get past the pilot group.

And like I said, all money is fair game.

Toga,
True, but they are not really draft issues, more like draft choices. The east group will decide on plan A or plan B. All monies are fair game, but only union monies, these are not union dollars. And the union has insurance for damages even if there are any. So to answer your question, those dollars are off limits.

 

[700UW]

TOGO,

Money that is contractually paid to an employee is not subject for the union to keep and you to force USAPA to get that money, they have no legal right to it.

 

[EastUS]

I think what his thoughts are, like mine, are about the effect the Nic would have on the fine aviators that he and I and others fly with every trip.

Well said and fully agreed here.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Not to go forth too deeply into the personal realm, BUT...what I'd think more "irrelevant" here is an utterly disrespectful, non-pilot (who clearly has NO/ZERO clue) stupidly and arrogantly disparaging Captain Sullenberger via the "Lucky sully" BS.

While I applaud Sully for accomplishing what he AND his crew did, it would be completely ignorant to assume it was executed deftly with nothing more than skill and experience. We as aviators know that there was a lot of Divine intervention/Luck (whatever you're comfortable with). Period. Ignoring such only serves to puff up your own ego as a pilot. All the puzzle pieces came together that day. Notably Sully and his crew had absolutely no control over most of those elements. And thank God it turned out the way it did!

For those who disagree... When was the last time you practiced ditching in the simulator? Yeah. That's what I thought.

On another note, I hope the #1 engine running at 30+% N1 will not tarnish his hero character! We'll have to see from the NTSB report what was done regarding the thrust levers. Anybody know what thrust mode was annunciated on the FMA?

 

[EastUS]

While I applaud Sully for accomplishing what he AND his crew did, it would be completely ignorant to assume it was executed deftly with nothing more than skill and experience. We as aviators know that there was a lot of Divine intervention/Luck (whatever you're comfortable with). Period.

On another note, I hope the #1 engine running at 30+% N1 will not tarnish his hero character! We'll have to see from the NTSB report what was done regarding the thrust levers. Anybody know what thrust mode was annunciated on the FMA?

1) No argument from me that'll EVER dismiss the Will of God in any difficult dealings that end well..or sometimes otherwise. Unlike many out west, who so arrogantly and with such wholesale naievety, are so boastful of their "flawless" safety record...I've known men better than myself who are long dead, and fully realize that "There but for fortune...."/etc

2) Nice try at implied "tarnish"....

 

[EastUS]

While I applaud Sully for accomplishing what he AND his crew did, it would be completely ignorant to assume it was executed deftly with nothing more than skill and experience.

PS: Are you even possibly attempting to now argue that "skill and experience" are considerations to completely disregard? Oh!..Sorry!!...I almost forgot = That's an assumption naturally required of all nic supporters