US Pilots labor thread 4/17-

[Black Swan]

Of course that "awful light" would be far preferable to being associated with the total darkness and moral bankruptcy which comes with being a USAPA supporter. At least Doug and team can claim support from the BOD, the shareholders, the investment community that may be asked to fund the next merger, industry analysts and even “neutral” third-parties such as some in the media and in political office who look to US management as being trusted industry spokesmen. Who supports USAPA beyond the pathological and narcissistic east pilots?

There will be no merger until this pilot group is combined under one contract. And this proud USAPA supporter will vote no on any deal that has the Nic. Parker will have no shot at a merger, and the rest of the industry leaders know this. He played his hand with LOA 93 far too long, with the help of the west pilots. Maybe he had a shot with a combined deal, but he has failed to merge his first attempt, and failed badly. Reed Richards, superhero. You are right. There is no way Nic4us is an Airways pilot. I strongly suspect a DAL shill.

 

[Freebird]

Adios, UAUA & CAL, not good for uswest, 2 major ALPA players gone we will be sliced and diced faster than we think , one has to only look at where the major players are and it is not PHX! MM!

UAL wasnt necessarily a 'great' option for USAirways. Other than getting rid of USAPA and getting the NIC in place FASTER, it was still a bad option. As for splitting the airline. I ask you MM, which airline do you think will welcome you and your group of deal busting pilots? Seriously? American? CAL? Who? Nobody stepped up to get your assets the first time, 'cept lil ole AWA.

Your pilot groups attitude and values will not be welcomed anywhere. You made bed. Sleep well.

USAPA = 2 years of wasted dues.

 

[luvn737s]

The fact is, following Arbitrator's Witt's decision in favor of USAPA dues collections last April..there simply is no active pilot that has not paid dues or fees to USAPA. Not one. Nor has there been a single active pilot exempted from the Section 29 proceedings that required service. Not one. And again, only an active pilot in arrears would be subject to a Section 29 letter.

RR

That's not necessarily true. Section 29 letters were sent out randomly, were they not? Thus it could very well be the case that nic4us may not have had his number come up yet. BTW, how would you have access to confidential union records?

The bigger question is whether or not the rise in delinquencies "necessitating" sec 29 action is coming mostly from dissatisfied east pilots who are unwilling to continue paying for the gas for Cleary's vindictive juggernaut against the west pilots, in lieu of credible leadership.

Is that little wooden box still available? I think some cards need to be delivered to the NMB soon.

 

[signals]

The East are a stubborn people and we hold grudges. B)

 

[HPearlyretiree]

UAL wasnt necessarily a 'great' option for USAirways. Other than getting rid of USAPA and getting the NIC in place FASTER, it was still a bad option. As for splitting the airline. I ask you MM, which airline do you think will welcome you and your group of deal busting pilots? Seriously? American? CAL? Who? Nobody stepped up to get your assets the first time, 'cept lil ole AWA.

Your pilot groups attitude and values will not be welcomed anywhere. You made bed. Sleep well.

USAPA = 2 years of wasted dues.

Yep, it was AWA's mistake. After what happened to Piedmont and PSA I figured no one would want to touch US.

 

[luvn737s]

The East are a stubborn people and we hold grudges. B)

Truth in advertising. But how is that workin' out for ya?

 

[Barrister]

Truth in advertising. But how is that workin' out for ya?

Upgrades are coming...slowly now but guys are still moving up....how bout you....you moving up??....didn't think so!!
I wish there was a solution but if this drags on another 1-2 years, lookout....mass retirements start kicking in ....the attitude will be well....we
waited this long what's another 2-3 years. Another 600 captain upgrades on the East and about 20 on the West.
You think you are grinding your teeth now!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[HP2USFA]

Usually grinding of teeth is a trait demonstrated by folks in a position to lose quite a bit. That doesn't really describe the West camp cause even a loss in the 9th doesn't mean DOH comes a knockin. Whereas a win in the 9th all but invites Nic in. There's no guarantee of an appeal to the SCOTUS after all and many of the verdant supporters have already stated they'd consider this finished after the 9th ruling.

 

[Barrister]

Usually grinding of teeth is a trait demonstrated by folks in a position to loose quite a bit. That doesn't really describe the West camp cause even a loss in the 9th doesn't mean DOH comes a knockin. Whereas a win in the 9th all but invites Nic in. There's no guarantee of an appeal to the SCOTUS after all and many of the verdant supporters have already stated they'd consider this finished after the 9th ruling.

Please....Nicforgetabboutit and LUVN are prime candidates for TMJ and then there is Calloway etc...
Ah....well just goes to show ya,,,you post enough...you slip up occasionally
DID YOU REALLY WRITE "folks in a position to loose quite a bit" ...I believe you did.....
I thought the NIC was soooooooo....fair right!!!
..did you just say we on the East stood to loose "quite a bit" if not strange analogy!!
Please explain youslf...please!!

You are right though....that is why

VNIIMN
NPJB

 

[luvn737s]

Upgrades are coming...slowly now but guys are still moving up....how bout you....you moving up??....didn't think so!!
I wish there was a solution but if this drags on another 1-2 years, lookout....mass retirements start kicking in ....the attitude will be well....we
waited this long what's another 2-3 years. Another 600 captain upgrades on the East and about 20 on the West.
You think you are grinding your teeth now!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

Nope, no grinding here, sorry. But the damages assessment that those newbie captains will be slammed with will be like found money.

Pick up a trip or two for me will ya?

 

[OTTER574]

Upgrades are coming...slowly now but guys are still moving up....how bout you....you moving up??....didn't think so!!
I wish there was a solution but if this drags on another 1-2 years, lookout....mass retirements start kicking in ....the attitude will be well....we
waited this long what's another 2-3 years. Another 600 captain upgrades on the East and about 20 on the West.
You think you are grinding your teeth now!!!!

VNIIMN
NPJB

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Good Afternoon Fellow West Pilots,


On Monday, Dr. Andy Jacob filed our response to USAPA’s Emergency Motion to stay the district court’s comprehensive injunction. Typical of Dr. Jacob’s writing, he quickly deconstructs the opposition’s arguments and then uses those same arguments to illuminate the opposition’s true motives. The same panel of judges who have our case – Judges Graeber, Bybee and Tashima - will also review USAPA’s motion for the emergency stay and our response. We can’t say how the panel will handle this motion; they might respond with a denial or they might not respond at all. Remember that USAPA has already asked for the 9th Circuit to stay Judge Wake’s injunction, and the only response was that they would take up the matter at the oral arguments. Then at the oral arguments in December, Seham asked about the stay as the panel was adjourning and Judge Tashima answered Seham’s question with a question: “Did you ask the district court for a stay?” In other words, yes you did and what was the answer there? Since the oral arguments we have heard nothing from the 9th on USAPA’s original motion to stay the injunction. The silence is deafening.



Now USAPA is again trying to get Judge Wake’s injunction removed and we all know why. But what makes this emergency motion so delicious is the obvious procedural error committed by USAPA’s counsel. Dr. Jacob concisely explains this error in the second half of his response and there is no need to even summarize what he said. All one has to do is read the response and it is clear. We will only point out that the mistake is egregious – every first year law student knows that appellate courts cannot hear new evidence first. For USAPA’s counsel to come before the 9th Circuit claiming to have new evidence (one of which was a Ted Reed article!) without first going to Judge Wake is . . . amazing. Just as in commercial aviation, the law has well defined procedures for handling a myriad of situations. New evidence is a common occurrence and the proper procedure is known by anyone in the legal profession, from the newest law clerk to the most seasoned attorney, without even referencing the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure or the Federal Rules of Appellate Procedure (two very big books). The mistake here is not unlike a commercial pilot claiming that they didn’t know they needed a take off clearance before taking off. Or, you just tell the feds that you knew it and did it anyway. Just think how either of those would go over with the FAA.

Since merger discussions are officially terminated, one can only be amused by USAPA's fire drill. USAPA has essentially gone to the 9th asking for a "get out of jail free" card to be able to violate the injunction issued by Judge Wake, and it was all for naught. If there was any doubt at the 9th as to USAPA's true motivations, the events of the last two weeks easily remove that doubt. Once again, all thanks go to the USAPA braintrust.

Sincerely,

Leonidas, LLC

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usapa, clearly, mowery and the rest of the usapa clowns makes my up and coming damages trial so much easier.

Again, thank you usapa clowns and espescially the founding legal coucil, lee seham, because without you this would not have come forward in such clear light of usapa's intent to do harm to west pilots in front of now 4 federal judges and a jury of nine.

 

[HP2USFA]

Please....Nicforgetabboutit and LUVN are prime candidates for TMJ and then there is Calloway etc...
Ah....well just goes to show ya,,,you post enough...you slip up occasionally
DID YOU REALLY WRITE "folks in a position to loose quite a bit" ...I believe you did.....
I thought the NIC was soooooooo....fair right!!!
..did you just say we on the East stood to loose "quite a bit" if not strange analogy!!
Please explain youslf...please!!

You are right though....that is why

VNIIMN
NPJB

Well since it's obvious you're going to take your own meaning from my statement regardless of the intent or my attempt to clarify, I'll simply save myself the carpal tunnel. I'll just leave it with the posit... who's on the hook for paying damages again?

I don't believe it was the West. If that's not 'standing to loose quite a bit' I don't know what is.

But by all means do continue to espouse the horrors of an arbitrated award. I'm sure there's someone out there who believes that the process broke down so horribly and only to nail the East (yet again). You obviously were the only people on Earth who used the process and did not receive everything you wanted out of it (you know not having to compromise and all that).

 

[Reed Richards]

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usapa, clearly, mowery and the rest of the usapa clowns makes my up and coming damages trial so much easier.

Again, thank you usapa clowns and espescially the founding legal coucil, lee seham, because without you this would not have come forward in such clear light of usapa's intent to do harm to west pilots in front of now 4 federal judges and a jury of nine.

Speaking of damages and the like, how about a Leo update on the last RICO proceedings? I hear that one was a real hoot! Hopefully the audio will be up on the site soon. (might already be, I will have to check)

As I have said here many times, I don't really get the Seham hate mail being posted here so often. Lee Seham is under the employment of USAPA to do its bidding, just as your fine lawyers do yours. What is your point in doing this?

RR

 

[nic4us]

Aboriginal in the outback with a neat computer and satellite connection?

Okay,, the gig is up,,but check out what I discovered on my latest walkabout. Reckon the roos had a run in with these usapa battlers? Their troop must have had a lawyer cunning as a Dunny rat to beat back those furphy vermin. Be sure to click on the photo once you open the file, to get to use your magnifier to study closely what the ancestors chronicled.

http://airlineforums.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=8725

But in all sincerity. I want to say that I am not trying to influence any west pilot to not pay dues. usapa is indeed authorized by the NMB to be the collective bargaining agent at LCC. As such they have taken the low road that almost any true union would not have followed. They sought dues enforcement prior to a new contract. They sought terminations prior to representation. They failed miserably in every undertaking they have attempted, except enforcing the West pilot's section 29. usapa owes the west and they will pay. So do not foul out of the game over money we are going to recoup.

But I guess I do not need to tell that to the over 1000 West migs who are about to vote in a new EVP election.

 

[sharonstoneseat]

HP2USFA,

My High School English teacher just rose up from the grave and told me I had to do this.

I don't mean to be a dork but when something is getting away from someone it is something to LOSE, not loose. Once was a typo, twice is bad grammer.

I am kind of hung up on your previous reference to verdant posters?? Do you mean green, leafy and covered in vegetation like Treebeard and his Army in The Lord of the Rings or inexperienced, green posters?

Did you perhaps want to say ardent posters?

Please, if you are going to argue matters of law, which is all about language and how it is interpreted, you might want to slow down and consider the aid of an online dictionary and a few less smiley, winky faces.

Flight Attendants as a group have reputations to protect. You are entitled to your opinion but please represent us with a little more forethought here.

You may rant back if you please but this is the same sort of gentle advice that I tried to give to you on the structure of your " Adverse to Change" editorials.