US Pilots Labor Thread 3/4-3/11-READ THE FIRST POST

[BoeingBoy]

electric, the only affected pilots would actually be those on the west who are 58 or older, and in good standing.

Any change to the "pay no train" language could affect anyone on the West side - someone wouldn't get trained to the bid that would have without the change.

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

Then why wasn't the similar language in the East contract given up? According to you it's age discrimination to have it in the contract...

Jim

Pretty sure it's due to East language being "24 months" with the West giving a stated number of "58".

 

[BoeingBoy]

So it's ok to discriminate against those 63, but not those younger??? How strange...

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I believe that on the East side it is at company discretion, not the discretion of junior pilots that just want another windfall. It's not there because the pilots want it there. It's there to save the company training/seasoniing costs. On recent bids (before the age 65 rule), the company has trained folks up to within 6 months of retirement age. Also, the guy not trained still gets paid, at least on the East side.

With the change in the retirement to 65, it's pretty indefensible to make guys with as many as 7 years left ineligible for upgrade just to allow some junior guys to abuse the system and the company. Anybody not seeing that is purely an ALPA shill.

 

[nic4us]

With the change in the retirement to 65, it's pretty indefensible to make guys with as many as 7 years left ineligible for upgrade just to allow some junior guys to abuse the system and the company. Anybody not seeing that is purely an ALPA shill.

Oldiebutgoody,

I agree that a change to the retirement age should have caused a change to this part of the West contract. However,the rule does not simply favor the "junior guy" over the senior pilot. It could be argued that it allowed the senior person abuse of the system. The point is it was a rule that protected the company and was in the contract for the companies benefit, USAPA could have used this minimal leverage to get something in return for its modification.

Perhaps USAPA feels they did get something. Perhaps they felt the leverage so minimal it could be given away just to display a measure of goodwill in negotiations. After all it was only a West contract issue, nothing as importatnt as their crusade for DOH.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I believe that on the East side it is at company discretion,

For those that argued that it was age discrimination, does this mean the company can discriminate but the union can't???

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

For those that argued that it was age discrimination, does this mean the company can discriminate but the union can't???

Jim

Since no one has sued over it, apparently so.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Since no one has sued over it, apparently so.

Or it isn't age discrimination, which is more likely...

As for specifics, the language in both contracts allows those affected to continue bidding for better positions. The only difference is that the West contract contained an age while the East contract contains a period prior to retirement. Since the West contract didn't mean anything to the East majority, I guess the union figured why try to get anything in exchange for giving the "pay no train" language up.

Jim

 

[Freighterguynow]

After all it was only a West contract issue, nothing as importatnt as their crusade for DOH.

It was a group of West pilots that asked for the change. Try and grasp this.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Wonder how many it takes to be "a group"...

Since USAPA is so willing to do whatever "a group" says, maybe "a group" of East pilots can request that the Nic award be accepted.

Jim

 

[electricjet98]

It was a group of West pilots that asked for the change. Try and grasp this.

Bogus BS (BBS?). Please remember that we had (prior to AAA) a relatively short upgrade time, approx. 7 years; a relative "blink of the eye" compared to AAA standards. Understand that to mean, basically anyone that wanted to upgrade, had that opportunity prior to reaching age 58. Those that elected not to upgrade, primarily did so to have better schedules than they would have if they upgraded. Once they reached age 58, they could bid for an upgrade to get the higher pay but retain the great schedule they had as an FO.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Your date of hire at the renamed AWA was 2005, Cactus pilot.

Not only are you disrespectful to an older man but you are dead wrong. :down:

 

[EastUS]

Bogus BS (BBS?). Please remember that we had (prior to AAA) a relatively short upgrade time, approx. 7 years;

And that particular "Bogus BS" has exactly what to do with anything? No..wait a minute!!..Ah!..It all "makes sense" now You apparently had "relative expectations" that your airline was going to double in size over any, say approximately 7-8 year period?..and (prior to AAA) keep doing so in perpetuity?..or; was everyone out there simply going to be allowed the left seat as a personal commemorative, just for traversing the unimaginably vast temporal chasm of 7 years? :blink:

As far as your additonal fantasy that any who'd have wished would have had the opportunity to upgrade?.....Note that things do actually change in the world around you as you go through life, and any absurdly arrogant projections into the always unknowable, far future, are only the proper provence of complete and utter fools, or very young children... It's never seemly for any supposed adults to spend too much of their time in Fantasyland.

 

[nic4us]

It was a group of West pilots that asked for the change. Try and grasp this.

Well then we have come full circle and it should have been put to the affected West members to vote.

Also, I believe the rule should have been changed to 63, or a less than 24 month wording, this would have kept it in the spirit of the original negotiation. But if the rule is being changed on the request of the West, I would like to point out that it means their are indeed at least a "group" of West pilots that it affects, and that pretty much is an indicator that we also have F/Os of the 50s generation, contrary to east common belief.

 

[pilotn79]

Not only are you disrespectful to an older man but you are dead wrong. :down:

Make that UTTER contempt and disgust for a group that attempts to cheat a process and you wonder why we turn our backs on you. Disrespect intended.