US Pilots Labor Thread 3/4-3/11-READ THE FIRST POST

[traderjake]

I don't want anyone's captain job except the one I had here before America West started operations.

Not true.

You want the jobs of all the West pilots senior to you on the arbitrated list who were hired at AWA after you were hired at US.

You want to bid upgrades and schedules before them and you want them furloughed before you.

It's a little late in the game for me to have to explain this to you but your bidding power(i.e. your seniority number) determines your job

 

[EastUS]

Not true.

You want the jobs of all the West pilots senior to you on the arbitrated list who were hired at AWA after you were hired at US.

Yet more devasting cultist"logic". Sigh...You must be "right"....All those silly little Conditions and Restrictions that'd prevent east people from bidding into west jobs shouldn't be factored into any of this manic hysteria at all. Carry on Trader

 

[traderjake]

Yet more devasting cultist"logic". Sigh...You must be "right"....All those silly little Conditions and Restrictions that'd prevent east people from bidding into west jobs shouldn't be factored into any of this manic hysteria at all. Carry on Trader

The arbitrator says I'm right, the pilot neutrals say I'm right, the Delta Northwest arbitrator says I'm right.

Your conditions and restrictions are silly because they don't survive the next merger.

If Conditions and Restriction are the answer will you accept the Nic award award with Conditions and Restriction?

 

[EastUS]

Your conditions and restrictions are silly

As are your assinine accusations of supposedly intended "theft", I'd think. So..I'm curious = when's "the next merger?" that you now feel the need to factor in?

Trader: "..will you accept the Nic award with conditions and restrictions?" Name so much as ONE C&R that was EVER even hinted at in this Post Nic frenzy?... much less EVER actually offered by the fair-minded west folk you so lovingly embrace?..and "deafening", utter and complete silence follows Sigh..One would think that a true hoard of rapacious barbarians from the evil east wouldn't have bothered to offer up ANY C&R's themselves at all..given that they're all purely evil in selfish intent, and seeking nothing less than the fullest looting of the "other side"...(Ummm..or am I mixing up the east's position with the west's in that very last portion? Doh! )

 

[traderjake]

As are your assinine accusations of supposedly intended "theft"

Making a Reserve East First Officer senior to a West Captain is stealing that Captain's job.

You and USAPA can delude yourselves otherwise but the rest of the world see it for what it is.

 

[EastUS]

Making a Reserve East First Officer senior to a West Captain is stealing that Captain's job.

You and USAPA can delude yourselves otherwise but the rest of the world see it for what it is.

Total BS Trader. How's that "stealing" ANY person's "job", when the C&R's prevent anyone east from bidding into it and taking the position?
Kindly explain the reality of that, versus your continued ramblings from Fantasyland..

Ummm"..the rest of the world"??..OK....Sure, if you say so, it must be true. After all; you clearly speak for "the rest of the world"....? "delude yourselves"? = I'll cheerfully leave that in more capable hands

 

[Waketurbulence]

Total BS Trader. How's that "stealing" ANY person's "job", when the C&R's prevent anyone east from bidding into it and taking the position?
Kindly explain the reality of that, versus your continued ramblings from Fantasyland..

It's because the seniority list for the merged US Airways has already been determined by a legal and binding arbritration . It has been presented to and accepted by the company, and it will be re-affirmed by the court that it is THE LIST. The C&R's only exist in YOUR mind. That is the reality .

 

[EastUS]

The C&R's only exist in YOUR mind. That is the reality .

As does that nervous Nic twitch in yours then. Yawn..let the games continue="That is the reality". .."and it will be re-affirmed by the court that it is THE LIST". Zounds!..All Hail "THE LIST"!!..Let the heralds go forth!! ...Yawn again..although naieve zealotry's always wryly amusing. It may triumph in court, or it may well not. The only thing that's presently certain is that your enthusiasm has nothing to do with the eventual outcome in any way. Should the west prevail in making Nic "THE LIST"; I'd venture a guess that Hell would host it's first Winter Olympics prior to it's ever being contractually implemented. No matter, as that's just my opinion. Someone... kindly just set me an alarm for when this will finally be over ZZzzzzzzzsnore,,,,

 

[BoeingBoy]

And Boeing Boy, Theres no leverage to use when your up against Federal Law. Fighting that change was a waste of time.

Then why wasn't the similar language in the East contract given up? According to you it's age discrimination to have it in the contract...

Jim

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not true.

You want the jobs of all the West pilots senior to you on the arbitrated list who were hired at AWA after you were hired at US.

You want to bid upgrades and schedules before them and you want them furloughed before you.

It's a little late in the game for me to have to explain this to you but your bidding power(i.e. your seniority number) determines your job

There are no pilots senior to me at AWA. I was hired here in the late 1970s. What year did AWA begin operating? I'm senior to ALL you people out west by DOH or Nicolau. And most of us in this situation on the east are fully supportive of USAPA and the separate topic of getting rid of the Nicolau shame.

And the reality is, I am "furlough proof." If they get to my number, the will be long out of business.

 

[electricjet98]

And Boeing Boy, Theres no leverage to use when your up against Federal Law. Fighting that change was a waste of time.

Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act.

SEC. 2. AGE STANDARDS FOR PILOTS.

(f) AMENDMENTS TO LABOR AGREEMENTS AND BENEFIT
PLANS.—Any amendment to a labor agreement or benefit plan
of an air carrier that is required to conform with the requirements
of this section or a regulation issued to carry out this section,
and is applicable to pilots represented for collective bargaining,
shall be made by agreement of the air carrier and the designated
bargaining representative of the pilots of the air carrier.

You could start "snooping" the facts to see how idiotic your post is. The age 58 restriction was no more discriminatory with mandatory retirement at age 65 than when mandatory retirement was at age 60. Therefore, changing the age 58 restriction was not required. Had your illustrious NAC, Proffessional Negotiators and BPR desired, they could have negotiated an agreement and obtained something, anything, for the pilots rather than just hand it over like the weak sisters they so clearly are!

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

There are no pilots senior to me at AWA. I was hired here in the late 1970s. What year did AWA begin operating? I'm senior to ALL you people out west by DOH or Nicolau. And most of us in this situation on the east are fully supportive of USAPA and the separate topic of getting rid of the Nicolau shame.

And the reality is, I am "furlough proof." If they get to my number, the will be long out of business.

The only shame is that you feel the way you do about the Nic.

After all, "they" almost DID get to your number..........

Little seniority number, little memory. A dangerous mix.

 

[electricjet98]

On that? We can certainly agree. First you post: "Part one: A good move and a word of encouragement for USAPA!" ..then?.."Some gus don't get it, and probably never will"....Words simply fail me when dealing with some of the west folk at times ..it's akin to watching some unfolding study in schizophrenia and self delusion. To sum up, as best I'm readilly able to reduce these grand issues to their prime movers = "USAPA's the ultimate evil..becuase it denies me my complete Nic supremacy..(which is, of course, no "windfall"..but I'm utterly obsessed with obtaining it at ANY cost!!!") "I'll NEVER join/pay dues/vote/etc..but I'll whine my little tail off about not being "represented". "As a mighty Spartan warrior in the "Army" of Leonidas..I swear my sacred AWWHoppers Oath to do everything possible to destroy this ghastly affront to all who Righteously accept the all-knowing omniscience of St Nic, our Saviour...but..I'll sometimes cheer for something USAPA's working for that'd benefit MEEE!"

"Some guys just don't get it, and probably never will" seems to put it all both very gently and extreemly kindly....

Folks?...You just can't make this type of insanity up...............

PS: IF any wonder as to implications regarding actual mental "health" issues involved?..the immediately following posting should suffice to enhance my observations somewhat:

"NiceLanding": I know-usapa will do anything to hurt the west. That's the only logical reason......." Indeed, NLC..What could follow more naturally?,,given that we "all know" that the entire world, nay..entire universe, revolves around a few hundred west pilots..and any thought or action that ill suits their immediate purpose in any way must be part of some purely evil conspiracy. "I know"..an acceptance of established "Faith",...clearly the sentiments of a "True Believer"..in fact? A previously self proclaimed portion of the"Veritable glacier of Righteousness" out west (perhaps not to be confused with the Great Pumpkin)....immediately followed, of course by "The only logical reason"..........Indeed. No other explanation would even be possible..or "logical" ..."logical"??..as in; the "logic" of a cult perhaps....

electric: "How many of you easties can truely say that you know what the age 58 upgrade limitation was all about?" Better question = How many of your westies, now so up in arms about this, EVER opened your mouths to address it in ANY way?...Disregard. I'd almost forgotten for a moment that you were completely opposed to joining and voting..or "bothering" to do anything other than bring the union down., much less, make even the slightest effort to educate any out east as to your non-nic issues. I'd imagine it would be difficult to find air to even form words for anything else, when one's lungs are constantly employed bellowing out "I want my Nic!!,,Waaah!!"...and yes..I clearly see how such behaviour's all so very "logical"

Well DELETED BY MODERATOR you spent a bunch of bandwidth to say nothing...so typical! You say "words simply fail me", but you sure gave the old college try to throw a bunch at the wall to see what might possibly stick...and completely avoid the subject!

"How many of your westies, now so up in arms about this, EVER opened your mouths to address it in ANY way?" Yes; members did address it earlier to no avail. Eventually our attorney addressed to Seeham...who didn't bother to respond.

"much less, make even the slightest effort to educate any out east as to your non-nic issues." Yes again, an attempt to educate the uneducated was made, at least in the few forums such as this where it was addressed earlier. Maybe you forgot...our representative has been censored due to delicate ears back east. Or are you saying that we should have educated the USAPA officers and BPR as to their own C&BL's which require a vote by the members affected (yes, we do have west members)? Difficult to educate those that refuse to listen.

 

[Phoenix]

 

[Dorf]

Difficult to educate those that refuse to listen.

And difficult to fairly represent those who refuse to be represented. And before you get started...with no dog in this fight, I think that it is unfair to cry "They aren't representing us out west" when your pilots won't join and get INVOLVED with your own representation.

Dorf