US Pilots Labor Thread 2/16-2/23

[EastUS]

I can't wait (can not wait) to watch your boys get crossed on that in the DFR trial.

"US East--1 of 3 in NYC Waterways, ladies and gentlemen of the jury."

"I can't wait (can not wait)" Well...That's certainly understandable in this instance, since revisiting tragic deaths clearly affords "certain" sorts of "emotionally healthy" and "well adjusted" people great glee....... :blink: I'd caution against excessive optimism here though..as some people on the jury may not be as mentally and spiritually ill as you seem to hope for...and obviously believe to be "normal".

"Saving the world, one clue at a time." If you say so....

 

[jetjok1]

Question;

Did any of you west pilots have the pleasure of having east pilot , Chesley Burnett "Sully" Sullenberger III, that commutes from California to Charlotte, NC on your flight?

I know west pilots used to refuse jump seats from East pilots commuting from the west like Captain Sullenberger.

Your thoughts please "gentleman."

The last time I tried to jumpseat I was denied. I don't try anymore. If I can't get in the back, I go offline or 2 leg commute on east metal. I have, nor will I ever deny a west pilot the jumpseat. I only wish the favor was returned. But that trip required me to burn 3 sick days.

 

[jetjok1]

Have not met Cpt Sullenberger, but sure have been asked if I know him.

This is why I have refused to have a blanket no east jumpseat policy. First off, it is just wrong. Second,it will come back to bite you. Third, it hurts your own commuters. Fourth, I cannot further a policy that would make someone uncomfortable jumpseating on their own airline (guess it is too late for that). and finally, if you turn down everyone, you may not know just who you are actually turning away.

But back to "Sully", is he back to work, it seems his appearance schedule was pretty demanding for a while.

No, he is not back to work. He won't be back for awhile. Hopefully, he gets a better offer and doesn't have to come back to this poor excuse for an airline.

 

[Tiger 1050]

If USAPA drags this crap out I feel sorry for you guys. First off this a trial about DFR. Period. I said it before and I'll say it again. That sword can cut both ways...

 

[N903AW]

Didn't you get the spelling wrong for the poster?

I'll leave that to others as well.

Petty. Thanks for the correction to my spelling error brought about by typing too fast! I will try better next time. How's this? Be Careful is a disappointment!

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Petty. Thanks for the correction to my spelling error brought about by typing too fast! I will try better next time. How's this? Be Careful is a disappointment!

Well you actually misunderstood me.

I had some other spellings in mind.

I thought you may have been creative with the spelling intentionally but I guess I was wrong.

What were you saying about disappointing?

 

[N903AW]

Well you actually misunderstood me.

I had some other spellings in mind.

I thought you may have been creative with the spelling intentionally but I guess I was wrong.

What were you saying about disappointing?

No harm, no foul. All intentions were just some light-hearted humor. Sometimes this thread needs a little humor once in awhile.

 

[Megasnoop]

Fellow America West pilots, I am writing to let you know that our so-called democratic union has refused to publish my most recent domicile update, that I submitted to them for publication nearly 1 week ago.

No wonder! The entire update was nothing more than an attack on USAPA. I loved his comparison of the removal Ciabattoni and Rowe from the PHL council. Neither one of them ever put out anything closely resembling this crap, but ALPO removed them anyway for not signing a loyalty oath. No, USAPA isnt going to remove LeCarre. Hes too much fun to replace. But theyre not going to let him use union resources to put out attacks on our union. If he really thinks his rights as a union rep are being violated, he needs to file a complaint with the NMB. They do know what is allowed under free speech. LeCarre obviously doesnt.

Pravda-style propaganda are a major impediment to progress. I will continue to attempt to work with our association to ensure that my communications are properly published. However, the America West pilots cannot and will not be silenced by anybody, and I will always ensure that I keep you informed.

Hey Brice, or whoever is writing this for you, there is NO AWA anymore and no AWA pilots. But that came from ALPO, not me. "Pravda-style?" Nice touch.

PHX DOMICILE COMMITTEES

Communications - Removed for board privacy

Grievance - Removed for board privacy

Legal Affairs - Removed for board privacy

Scheduling / PBS - Removed for board privacy

Old ClearDircet accuses USAPA of recycling the same people with their failed policies? That didnt happen at USAPA HQ or any of its domiciles, but its sure going on in PHX. Same tired old re-cycled failures coming out of West ALPO retirement to screw it up again. And having a director of legal affairs whose job is to coordinate with AWAPPA and AOL to the detriment of USAPA? With AWAPPAs stated purpose being to destroy USAPA? You really think that position is going to get approved by the BPR, much less get any funding?

LeCarre, or whoever is pulling his strings can keep shooting his mouth off. I doubt if the BPR is gong to do anything about it. He just adds more fodder to our side of the DFR suit.

And speaking of the DFR lawsuit, I cant wait for Sully to tell the jury about every time he was denied a jumpseat by "AWA" pilots.
snooper

 

[Metroyet]

And speaking of the DFR lawsuit, I cant wait for Sully to tell the jury about every time he was denied a jumpseat by "AWA" pilots.
snooper

"Lucky" Sully is totally meaningless to the questions of law. Keep dreaming of a "do over" saviour if it makes you happy...

10 months, 70 west members, loa93, and more lawsuits than you can shake a stick at. USAPA was a pre-destined failure...how long are you guys going to live in an alternate universe?

A 7yr SWA co-pilot will make 9 dollars an hour MORE than any east narrow body capt.... at this rate, that will NEVER change. The East can blame only themselves for that fact. They'll never stop the buck passing, finger pointing blame game however.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I say let the PHX rep post whatever he wants.

Bye hyz owne intemperyte penn shall hyz wordes undermyne hyz verie kause.

 

[ClueByFour]

"I can't wait (can not wait)" Well...That's certainly understandable in this instance, since revisiting tragic deaths clearly affords "certain" sorts of "emotionally healthy" and "well adjusted" people great glee....... :blink: I'd caution against excessive optimism here though..as some people on the jury may not be as mentally and spiritually ill as you seem to hope for...and obviously believe to be "normal".

Your fellow pilot is suggesting, essentially, that the West is in trouble because they'll trot out Sullenburger as a shining example of why DOH is somehow fair, and you are calling _me_ spiritually ill?

Pot, meet kettle. Unlike Seeham, I don't think it's possible that the Angry FO Club can find another lawyer quite that lacking in acumen or tactical considerations, but it's possible that the world may be further awed by the train wreck that is USAPA leadership and their counsel.

I've got news for you--you won't find 12 people in Arizona (not a bastion of Eastern unionism) who will fall for that crap, and if they do, it's simply a matter of inquiring as to the hire dates of the crews of other East flights that ended up _in_ a body of water in NYC as opposed to floating on top thereof.

But I must say--love it when you guys trot out the righteous indignation, "the quotes" and "the dots." It's better than "cable television" for entertainment.

So, tell me--do you think what Nos is suggesting would be a sound thing to do in a courtroom? Yes or no will suffice.

 

[sharktooth]

I've got news for you--you won't find 12 people in Arizona (not a bastion of Eastern unionism) who will fall for that crap, and if they do, it's simply a matter of inquiring as to the hire dates of the crews of other East flights that ended up _in_ a body of water in NYC as opposed to floating on top thereof.

I was not aware that "unionism" would be on trial. Most "Eastern" unionists that I know are most interested in matters of the rule of law, which would be what a jury could be judging. Perhaps you are implying something not intelligent about people in Arizona? I know quite a few people in Arizona who are quite capable of separating fact from fiction.

and, glad you brought up about the "other" plane ending up in a NYC body of water. I think that captain's LOS at the time was about that of the average LOS West Captain, maybe less. IMHO, comparing him to Sully would make a great case for longevity, DOH or LOS. Go for it.

and, I agree 1984, let the PHX rep post what he wants. BTW, is he related to the AFA rep in PHX, the one who campaigned (and won) on "not one east FA would ever work out of PHX"?

 

[nic4us]

And speaking of the DFR lawsuit, I cant wait for Sully to tell the jury about every time he was denied a jumpseat by "AWA" pilots.
snooper

It would be a huge disasterous mistake to put Sully on the stand prior to the results of the NTSB investigation. Beside, I believe he already gave a testimony of sorts in his 60 minutes interview, in which he implied any pilot regardless of their seniority could have accomplished his role in the accident. Very gracious on his part, I tend to disagree.

But if you are saying he would testify that a fellow Captain does not have the same authority afforded him, then let him take the stand.

Do you know that he was ever denied a jumpseat in the first place? and what does Captain authority have to do with a unions DFR, unless you are argueing that USAPA failed to back West Captain authority in the jumpseat issue, but backed it wholeheartedly in the USA Today fuel fiasco.

 

[cleardirect]

Old ClearDircet accuses USAPA of recycling the same people with their failed policies? That didnt happen at USAPA HQ or any of its domiciles, but its sure going on in PHX. Same tired old re-cycled failures coming out of West ALPO retirement to screw it up again. And having a director of legal affairs whose job is to coordinate with AWAPPA and AOL to the detriment of USAPA? With AWAPPAs stated purpose being to destroy USAPA? You really think that position is going to get approved by the BPR, much less get any funding?

Since you bring it up. You may want to read your own posts before they go out. You say that usapa does not recycle at HQ or domiciles. Dave Ciabattoni was an ALPA rep now running for Exec.VP. Mike Cleary look at his resume. ALPA system board, MEC merger, first officer rep, scope chairman. Now running for president. Randy Mowery MEC merger committee, Route chairman, MEC strategic planning, Doug Mowry running for VP. Still want to believe that usapa is not the same old ALPA people?

Funding. I see so that is nationals way of controlling things. With money? What funding needed? These are volunteer positions. You know not FPL. That is what unionism is suppose to be right. Helping out fellow pilots not expecting to get paid. Or is that the only way the east pilot “volunteerâ€￾ is to get FPL.

Just so I am clear. Do you have a problem with s domicile communicating with the pilots? We are the largest base but only have one rep. He is a little busy.

Do you have a problem with someone to coordinate grievances from the largest base? Could Tracy maybe need some help protecting the west contract?

The PBS guy is already working with national. Problem with that position?

Legal affairs. This association has caused more law suits in in it’s short existence then a bus crash. Do you think that it might be a good idea for someone to keep track of all these things? Do some research into the legal options if the union is trying to terminate someone. Or sue someone for millions of dollars? No probably not because usapa has the west pilots best interest at heart. That has been proven over and over.

LeCarre, or whoever is pulling his strings can keep shooting his mouth off. I doubt if the BPR is gong to do anything about it. He just adds more fodder to our side of the DFR suit.

Maybe usapa can go back to their same playbook. File a law suit against someone.

And speaking of the DFR lawsuit, I cant wait for Sully to tell the jury about every time he was denied a jumpseat by "AWA" pilots.
snooper

So tell us. With your extensive legal background. Under what pretense would Sully be on the witness stand? This case is about what usapa failed to do. Not about what the Nicolau award says. Not about what position an individual is placed on that list. It is about usapa. What is he going to tell the jury? It would be an interesting exchange none the less.

First the jump seat is a captains authority deal so irrelevant to the case. But do you think when asked if there was a joint contract where would Sully like to be based. Well ladies and gentlemen of the jury right here in sunny PHX. And why can you not be based here close to your home. That would be because usapa has failed to represent the west fairly and ignored arbitration. By delaying a joint contract. Until that happens ole Sully has to commute across the country ever week.

Yep interesting but irrelevant to the legal proceedings.

 

[EastUS]

[/quote] It would be a huge disasterous mistake to put Sully on the stand prior to the results of the NTSB investigation.

and what does Captain authority have to do with a unions DFR, unless you are argueing that USAPA failed to back West Captain authority in the jumpseat issue, but backed it wholeheartedly in the USA Today fuel fiasco. .[/quote]

It must be a good idea then, since not one west advocate here seems the least bit thrilled by the prospect. I'd think it would be equally instructive to have testimony from the FO..who'd be made "junior" to any west person with less than half his years worked/flown for the company. I don't know that most jurors could readilly relate to the jumpseat issue, but, it's interesting coloration on all the vast reservoirs of claimed "Integrity", and the overall west behaviors from the start of this mess to the present. Not being a trained trial attorney; I don't pretend towards knowing the best strategy for either side's presentations. I do know a bit about human beings though, and it will be fellow members of the human race that comprise the jury. What they'll think of "everything" is impossible to know at this time..but, I'll venture a guess that they may not be so utterly overwhelmed by the west's "Integrity" and "Righteousness" as are the west pilots themselves. Oh well..It should all be an interesting show in any case, whatever witnesses are called and however it's to be done.