US Pilots Labor Thread 2/16-2/23

[nycbusdriver]

Remember, Gerrold Glass is still the man behind the curtain, and he certainly knows how to find the smallest loophole that would deny your grand raise. Not that I couldn't use one.

Lucky for us, the quickly filed fast-track grievance will settle the matter, not Jerry Glass, if the snapbacks don't occur. And the pay will be retroactive to January 1, 2010, no matter how long the company tries to drag out the process. And, since we will by then be in Section 6, this may be determined to be a major dispute...with the self-help attached.

 

[wopr21]

Based on the history of USAirways and its relationship with its unions, I will be more than surprised if your scenario transpires as you describe it.

Remember, Gerrold Glass is still the man behind the curtain, and he certainly knows how to find the smallest loophole that would deny your grand raise. Not that I couldn't use one.

Really, the mods should simply close this thread. No useful/productive dialogue has been exchanged here for over a year. Just the same people writing the same position paper over and over ad nauseum.

And as for the UAL stuff: An Academy Award winning performance! Oh I forgot, you have friends in high USAPA places, so it must be so.

My prediction...
The company has to abide by the contract. Just like with " parity plus 1%", We got that for 2-3 months. Then they will stop dragging their feet and negotiate in faith and get a contract done. A contract will only get done when the bean counters see the payroll stubs coming across their desks and wonder where this came from. Then we will ponder the good 'ol days again that we had in early 09.
wopr

 

[nic4us]

Litigation mania notwithstanding: I've a point of minor curiosity = Do ANY of you folks out west honestly even begin to fantasize that the current managment is/will ever be, unless forced to...actually negotiating in the slightest degree of ANY good faith?...With ANY actual thought being given towards initiating a more costly labor structure?
QUOTE (Megasnoop @ Feb 22 2009, 10:09 PM)
Well, East, we CAN have patience. Just 10 months until the snap-back" Fully agreed here.

East, as a West pilot I can tell you I believe management is of course intentionally stalling for a variety of reasons.

1. status quo keeps cost down.
2. status quo keeps separate ops, allowing them to defer tough questions such as seniority integration.
3. status quo gives them an excuse for not negotiating with the AFA. "We do not want to talk to the F/A's til we have a pilot contract."
4. etc. etc..et al..

But , under similar reasoning, if you think a snap back is coming, and it is apparent that USAPA does believe this, I would say you have another think coming.

If you try to tell me that a snap back is part of loa93 contract, I would have to simply explain that contracts do not seem to carry any weight around here, as both the company and USAPA are disregarding any contracts that are no longer in their best intrest.

 

[Garfield]

fragmented off to UAL?? LOLOLOL you guys are funny

 

[nycbusdriver]

If you try to tell me that a snap back is part of loa93 contract, I would have to simply explain that contracts do not seem to carry any weight around here, as both the company and USAPA are disregarding any contracts that are no longer in their best intrest.

Well, then. I think USAPA should drop the grievances that have to do with new hires working while west pilots are furloughed, and that the west operation is about 3000/month under contractual minimums. Given your viewpoint, why bother? Just let the westies hit the street.

 

[EastUS]

East, as a West pilot I can tell you I believe management is of course intentionally stalling for a variety of reasons.

1. status quo keeps cost down.
2. status quo keeps separate ops, allowing them to defer tough questions such as seniority integration.
3. status quo gives them an excuse for not negotiating with the AFA. "We do not want to talk to the F/A's til we have a pilot contract."
4. etc. etc..et al..

But , under similar reasoning, if you think a snap back is coming, and it is apparent that USAPA does believe this, I would say you have another think coming.

If you try to tell me that a snap back is part of loa93 contract, I would have to simply explain that contracts do not seem to carry any weight around here, as both the company and USAPA are disregarding any contracts that are no longer in their best intrest.

On 1 through 4 we have full agreement. I'd ad that I don't expect this bunch to EVER move off their evident postion of "Screw the empolyees to the maximum extent possible" unless/until pretty much forced to do otherwise by law or circumstances. On the snap back; as noted...I hardly expect ANYTHING to EVER be cheerfully handed over to ANY employee group by the current managment, but do believe it'll be achievable. Time will tell. A unified pilot group would be the best weapon to have, but the Nic cancer clearly makes that completely impossible. No conversational sense in going down that sorry road much farther. The west remains not only "unsupportive", but obviously, completely hostile to anything the union does/will do, even to the point of ignoring the greivance actions that would/hopefully will, return west pilots to the property. As long as this attitude prevails..and I realize that adamant west thought isn't going to change....you're all pretty much just observers offering up catcalls from the darker areas of the theater. Bluntly speaking; whatever you all think out there means absolutely zero when coupled with the entirely non-participatory tack you've taken and are mostly maintaining. In any case; whatever either of us believe about the future/snapbacks/etc at this, or any point's merely fodder for conversation here, and won't effect any aspect of how that future unfolds.

 

[luvn737s]

The west is justifiably suspect and unenthusiastic about USAPA's grievances for 2 reasons: 1- Prevailing in a grievance would require someone taking USAPA seriously as a precondition (their track record speaks for itself) and 2- USAPA has decided that perpetuating the feud between the east and west is paying greater dividends than mending fences and proving their ability to unify and lead.

Jumping up and down and demanding that folks acknowledge their legitimacy is much less effective than simply being the type of leaders people want to follow.

 

[EastUS]

The west is justifiably suspect and unenthusiastic about USAPA's grievances for 2 reasons:

Sheesh!..Sometimes I begin to truly wonder why anyone out east should honestly give a rat's arse about some of you people out there. You remain "suspect" of earnest efforts to return "your" furloughed people to the line?....suit yourself. Fortunately for all concerned...your "suspect and unenthusiastic" BS means nothing to the efforts involved.

Aw hell..nevermind. I should know better by now...

 

[luvn737s]

fragmented off to UAL?? LOLOLOL you guys are funny

This might be one thing that makes a shred of sense.

 

[N905TW]

You remain "suspect" of earnest efforts to return "your" furloughed people to the line?....suit yourself.

As one of "those people" furloughed, if USAPA really cared about all pilots in its care, where was the backlash at the company in the months leading up to these out of order furloughs? Where were the challenges to the company that such a furlough schedule was WRONG and would NOT be tolerated? Where was the outcry from the UNION that supposedly represents ALL USAIRWAYS PILOTS?

Meanwhile, 10 East pilots were asked about fuel burns and USAPA goes on the offensive with full page newspaper ads, updates, and press releases. 175 out of order West pilot furloughs are announced, and not a peep from USAPA.

"Watch what they do, not what they say".

 

[EastUS]

As one of "those people" furloughed, if USAPA really cared about all pilots in its care, where was the backlash at the company in the months leading up to these out of order furloughs? Where were the challenges to the company that such a furlough schedule was WRONG and would NOT be tolerated? Where was the outcry from the UNION that supposedly represents ALL USAIRWAYS PILOTS?

Meanwhile, 10 East pilots were asked about fuel burns and USAPA goes on the offensive with full page newspaper ads, updates, and press releases. 175 out of order West pilot furloughs are announced, and not a peep from USAPA.

"Watch what they do, not what they say".

I'm honestly very, very sorry that you're currently on furlough. That absoulutely stinks for anyone....not that west people have historically cared at all about furloughed people..if they were evil east sorts that is..those should be totally disregarded as human beings and gleefully stapled. We all "got that". No matter for now. From your tone?..I'd guarantee that if/when the union's successful in returning you to work you'll still rant and whine in the same "Righteous".."Integrity" ridden fashion.

Meanwhile...Refresh our collective memories here. Precisely what have the west pilots been doing all this time?:

1) Trying to destroy the union in every manner possible.
2) Promise to never-ever/no-way/no-how participate at any level.
3) Whine constantly.
4) Repeat steps 1 through 3 in an endless and nauseating loop.
5) Repeat step 3) at irregular intervals within the loop.

"Watch what they do, not what they say".

Anyway..enough. Have a decent day. It's gorgeous outside and I'm going to make use of some fresh air. I hope you'll be back on the line soon.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Aw hell..nevermind. I should know better by now...

EastUS,
You do realize that it's a lost cause reasoning with Westies. Kind of like trying to have a sit down chat with a lobotomy patient.

Later,
Eye

 

[wopr21]

fragmented off to UAL?? LOLOLOL you guys are funny

Whats even more funny is a 10 year west guy claiming his/her entitlement to fly captain on the 777

Fireworks commence....

 

[Elevation]

I'd guarantee that if/when the union's successful in returning you to work you'll still rant and whine in the same "Righteous".."Integrity" ridden fashion.

Why shouldn't they? if ALPA was on the scene the grievance would have been filed before the out of seniority furloughs began. USAPA got a shotgun put to its head by a federal judge to make them care.

 

[N903AW]

...not that west people have historically cared at all about furloughed people..

Didn't America West hire pilots and flight attendants that were furloughed (with a bad outlook for being reinstated) from the old US Airways?