US Pilots labor thread 11/5-

[Metroyet]

National seniority list, great. Who is on it and when do you get on it? First commercial job, first major, only ALPA members only USAPA members. Who decides and when does it become active? Does furlough time count?

Be patient. USAPA will have to get back to you on these questions. They have to run an exhaustive analysis to determine exactly which scenario will result in their gaining a massive windfall resulting in the stapling of 85% of the nations pilots below them. Then you can bet they'll have an answer for you. Be prepared though, it's going to be very complicated, convoluted, use circular logic, contradict itself, and will be plainly hypocritical at times but in the end, Their "conditions and restrictions" plan will be good for everybody. They promise.

When the other pilots complain, they can simply change their C&BL, throw their hands up in the air, and claim that the complainers are traitorous rookie ALPA lovers that loathe democracy. Soon after, Seham will file a RICO suit on the first 1000 objectors to The Master Plan with room for 50,000 John and Jane Doe defendants.

can hold a press conference announcing a bright new day for Pilot Unionism, (don't mention that certain other list he's clearly listed on however...it makes him grouchy)

Ahh. Sweet Sweet Hypocrisy...the hallmark of USAPA.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Be patient. USAPA will have to get back to you on these questions. They have to run an exhaustive analysis to determine exactly which scenario will result in their gaining a massive windfall resulting in the stapling of 85% of the nations pilots below them. Then you can bet they'll have an answer for you. Be prepared though, it's going to be very complicated, convoluted, use circular logic, contradict itself, and will be plainly hypocritical at times but in the end, Their "conditions and restrictions" plan will be good for everybody. They promise.

When the other pilots complain, they can simply change their C&BL, throw their hands up in the air, and claim that the complainers are traitorous rookie ALPA lovers that loathe democracy. Soon after, Seham will file a RICO suit on the first 1000 objectors to The Master Plan with room for 50,000 John and Jane Doe defendants.

can hold a press conference announcing a bright new day for Pilot Unionism, (don't mention that certain other list he's clearly listed on however...it makes him grouchy)

Ahh. Sweet Sweet Hypocrisy...the hallmark of USAPA.

Blah, blah blah. The windfall is yours.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Date of Hire. The day you were hired at a company.
Date of Birth. The day you exited the womb.

Unless someone is preordained to a job one has nothing to do with the other. Let�€™s say two brothers go to work at the same company. The younger one gets hired first the older one gets hired second. Who is senior? Do you reorder the list every time a family member gets hired?

The problem is we had a merger. Age does not play into seniority. I know the east pilots like to add that to the mix but it is irrelevant. If a pilot gets hired at age 64.5 should he gain some seniority because of his advanced age? Should a 25 year old move down the list until he is of the �€œproper�€� age to gain anything?

But none of this matters. The seniority INTEGRATION, most east pilots fail to understand that it was integration not the west coming to their list, was done by the rules in arbitration. The court has ruled that USAPA must use Nicolau as the seniority list. Soon the ninth will rule and most likely uphold that finding. The east can complaint all you want but that is the reality that we have.

National seniority list, great. Who is on it and when do you get on it? First commercial job, first major, only ALPA members only USAPA members. Who decides and when does it become active? Does furlough time count?

You are preaching to someone who could care less what you think.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

UtterlyUdder said:
I don't think very highly of people who supported a DFR suit filed against a brand new union. No, not highly at all. No matter how you try to frame it, if you have a brother and he is older than you, he is SENIOR to you.


Situational ethics again. What do you think of a union formed to unfairly represent a minority class of its membership?

Well lookee here! I am flattered! Your very first post was to little ol' me!

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Utterly shocking ; o )

You will all be most happy to know that I will be leaving for a vacation. I can't say I'll miss you. But then you probably hope I will never rear my ugly head here again. However, just as a famous general once declared "I SHALL RETURN!"

Hasta la vista,

UU

 

[boeingplt]

You will all be most happy to know that I will be leaving for a vacation. I can't say I'll miss you. But then you probably hope I will never rear my ugly head here again. However, just as a famous general once declared "I SHALL RETURN!"

Hasta la vista,

UU

Easy there Utterly, I'm a big fan. Enjoy your vaca, Try not to think of this love fest.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The actual Parker quote:

underpants

I guess you'll be on vacation and not see this for awhile, but I take your word re: Parker's quote and stand corrected.

Jim

 

[hp_fa]

My opinion is something will change as a result of this review. I am just not sure what.

Hope your wife is doing well.

RR

Thank you for the best wishes.

Just so I am clear I am not saying that nothing will happen. I just think, at this point in time, that the injunction will stay in place unless the CoA determines that there was a fundamental error in the evidenciary rulings and/or the jury instructions. The burden is on the Appellant and the threshold of what constitutes reversible error is higher than "it may have" altered the jury's verdict.

The only reason that I even provided my thoughts was that it would be both easy and kinda chicken (fill in this word) of me to say nothing and then claim I was right all along. So I am willing to be proven incorrect if that is what happens. I just think it is more likely that I am correct and the verdict will be fundamentally upheld.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Blah, blah blah. The windfall is yours.

Hah hah hah, the shoe fits, usapa extrapolated to a larger scale.

 

[UtterlyUdder]

Easy there Utterly, I'm a big fan. Enjoy your vaca, Try not to think of this love fest.

Boeingplt, I'm sorry that I posted to yours. I didn't mean you. My mind is askew because I am all flustered as to which stilettos to take with me. I intend to dance on some tables somewhere. If I don't break my legs, I'll see you when I get back. I'm sure I'll feel the love while I'm gone.

 

[Justme]

US Airways pilots ask for federal mediation

By: The Associated Press | 13 Nov 2009 | 02:42 PM ET Text Size TEMPE, Ariz. - The pilot union at US Airways Group Inc. is asking for federal mediation in its negotiations with the airline.

Short CNBC Article Here

 

[boeingplt]

Boeingplt, I'm sorry that I posted to yours. I didn't mean you. My mind is askew because I am all flustered as to which stilettos to take with me. I intend to dance on some tables somewhere. If I don't break my legs, I'll see you when I get back. I'm sure I'll feel the love while I'm gone.

spank you very much for the visual. have fun

 

[flybynite]

Be patient. USAPA will have to get back to you on these questions. They have to run an exhaustive analysis to determine exactly which scenario will result in their gaining a massive windfall resulting in the stapling of 85% of the nations pilots below them. Then you can bet they'll have an answer for you. Be prepared though, it's going to be very complicated, convoluted, use circular logic, contradict itself, and will be plainly hypocritical at times but in the end, Their "conditions and restrictions" plan will be good for everybody. They promise.

When the other pilots complain, they can simply change their C&BL, throw their hands up in the air, and claim that the complainers are traitorous rookie ALPA lovers that loathe democracy. Soon after, Seham will file a RICO suit on the first 1000 objectors to The Master Plan with room for 50,000 John and Jane Doe defendants.

James Ray can hold a press conference announcing a bright new day for Pilot Unionism, (don't mention that certain other list he's clearly listed on however...it makes him grouchy)

Ahh. Sweet Sweet Hypocrisy...the hallmark of USAPA.

Sheesh......let's not be too condescending..........you might want to turn it down a knotch.

 

[Reed Richards]

Thank you for the best wishes.

Just so I am clear I am not saying that nothing will happen. I just think, at this point in time, that the injunction will stay in place unless the CoA determines that there was a fundamental error in the evidenciary rulings and/or the jury instructions. The burden is on the Appellant and the threshold of what constitutes reversible error is higher than "it may have" altered the jury's verdict.

The only reason that I even provided my thoughts was that it would be both easy and kinda chicken (fill in this word) of me to say nothing and then claim I was right all along. So I am willing to be proven incorrect if that is what happens. I just think it is more likely that I am correct and the verdict will be fundamentally upheld.

As I think you have already alluded to, the oral arguments could indeed give us at least a glimpse into the thought process of the 9th going forward....although the chance of a real revelation is slim. My original, and now incorrect, idea of the "15 minutes of fame" was that it had better be pretty darn good oral presentation, kind of the end all be all of arguments. More likely it will end up being a question and answer session.

All new for me going forward, as has been this entire USAPA thing. I really have no life experience to base my opinions on, but I will stick with my beliefs, though not as bold as yours, and still say simply that things will change as a result of this legal process. Not a cop out, I just don't really know, and my hard fast personal opinion means nothing.

We are mere days away from being at a point where we simply wait for a decision, and all the second guessing and web board logic will mean nothing until we hear the results. I hope from that point forward we can talk of other things, at least until the decision is rendered.

RR

 

[hp_fa]

I hope from that point forward we can talk of other things, at least until the decision is rendered.

RR

The first few days after the oral argument will probably be lively here, but once that is fully discussed it probably will simmer down as far as discussion of the legal situation. But the East/West thing is like Hatfields/McCoys. I don't expect that to calm much except for perhaps a Christmas/Hanukkah truce.