US Pilots labor thread 11/5-

[Metroyet]

Hp_fa,

I understand the legal positions. The question is why would the West pilots want to win the Addington case? The West pilots would only continue to suffer the self-inflicted negative consequences of trying to force an "unfair" seniority integration. The only possible benefit to winning Addington for West pilots would be an ego boost from bragging rights.

The consequences are not predicted they are already established, ongoing and can only get worse with an Addington "victory". The malignant Nic award is the problem and making the problem permanent with increasingly negative repercussions is not an intelligent solution.

underpants

The Addington case has already been won. The East caused all of this...to call this mess "self inflicted" from the west is no different than blaming the victim. You guys though you could do as you wished with impunity and you found out differently. This bizarre revisionist history seems to be a growing trait of the Common Eastie.

Neither side has any choice as far as the Nic. is concerned. The day you voted in USAPA is the day that Nic. was cast in stone. There is no "west" to negotiate with anymore...you thought you were smart by stealing their representation but it didn't quite work out as you hoped. I find your grasp of reality to be un-nerving as the level of delusion just keeps growing. Nic. is not a "bargaining" position. It's over. That's it. Retire on LOA93 if you wish but you will retire with the Nic award staring you in the face. I think more rational minds with prevail, and a decent contract is closer than you think.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

Retire on LOA93 if you wish but you will retire with the Nic award staring you in the face. I think more rational minds with prevail, and a decent contract is closer than you think.

Are you reading the same NAC updates that I am. When the company does finally decide to start negotiating it will take more than "decent" to make 51% of us vote yes.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

why would the West pilots want to win the Addington case? underpants

To keep the East pilots from flying Phoenix-Tokyo in 2012.

 

[Reed Richards]

The Addington case has already been won.

Already "won?" Are we skipping the oral arguments next month in SFO? Has Judge Wake moved the damages trial back into the current decade? If the decision in AZ was clearly set in stone, then why did the 9th even take it on? Judge Wake is well established career wise, and surely needs no reaffirmation from higher courts to further his standing and legacy in the legal profession.

Why are we now in appeal? Why are we now in an "expedited" appeal? Maybe labor law in the country needed to be rewritten, and Judge Wake, with the support of the higher courts, is about to do just that. Or maybe not. We will see.

RR

 

[hp_fa]

The question is why would the West pilots want to win the Addington case?

Because I am not a pilot I will respectfully defer to any of them to answer. I think you probably expect me to pass on answering that question.

 

[Captain Underpants]

To keep the East pilots from flying Phoenix-Tokyo in 2012.

The West contract has A330 rates but no section 18 East contract equivalent International operations section to allow for augmented crews. PHX-Tokyo would have to be flown by deadheading East crews or postponed. Just another self-inflicted negative consequence of holding out for Nic.

The Addington class representitives do have the legal authority to give up Nic for the class however.......I wonder how long they will hold out?

underpants

 

[traderjake]

I didnt say it wouldnt, did I. Your previous post said Wake had a say so on our vote. Why dont you read what you write. He cannot make us vote "Yes". Not that it matters because the company will never put out anything worth a vote. Do you understand now?

"QUOTE (AWE_SHUCKS @ Nov 8 2009, 03:54 PM) *
It will only become an issue with a joint contract which in all likelihood will include Nic and as such will never even be put out for a vote"

"That's what you say. Judge Wake says you're wrong."

I say you and AWE_SHUCKS are wrong and Judge Wake will eventually force USAPA to put out for vote a proposal with the Nic award.

I never said he can make you vote yes.

 

[Metroyet]

Just another self-inflicted negative consequence of holding out for Nic.

There is no "holding out". Neither side has a choice anymore. The Nic. award is the only section 29 that will be in the next contract. Nobody can legally change that fact. What do you suggest? The West simply roll over and capitulate? Do you have any reasonable expectation that the West, (who is holding all the important cards) is really going to allow 80% to get stapled as a result of the Easts' dirty tricks and unethical behavior? You guys played all of your bully cards and it got you exactly nowhere.

Tell me, Who on the West has the legal authority to bind all west pilots to anything other than the nic award?

Answer: NOBODY.

 

[hp_fa]

If the decision in AZ was clearly set in stone, then why did the 9th even take it on? Judge Wake is well established career wise, and surely needs no reaffirmation from higher courts to further his standing and legacy in the legal profession.

There is a lot of stuff in the trial court's proceedings. It doesn't surprise me that the Ninth Circuit accepted the appeal, but then again that doesn't mean they intend to overturn the trial court's rulings. I also have previously said that if the Ninth is to reverse and remand Judge Wake it will likely be on issues of evidence or the jury instructions. However the threshold of how wrong Judge Wake needed to be to deserve to be reversed is quite high. So we will just have to see what happens.

 

[ableoneable]

Already "won?" Are we skipping the oral arguments next month in SFO? Has Judge Wake moved the damages trial back into the current decade?

RR

2010 is in the current decade genius. 2011 is the first year of the next decade. No year zero.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Tell me, Who on the West has the legal authority to bind all west pilots to anything other than the nic award?

The East pilots, the BPR, Judge Wake, the 9th circuit appeals court, SCOTUS, the Addington class representitives, the West pilots by vote, the company, the next merger partner, bankruptcy court, Congress, a federal arbitrator, the current contract, a ratified new contract, the system board, other court decisions, the NMB, Nicolau, President Obama through a Presidential emergency board

...... just to name a few.

underpants

 

[ableoneable]

The East pilots, the BPR, Judge Wake, the 9th circuit appeals court, SCOTUS, the Addington class representitives, the West pilots by vote, the company, the next merger partner, bankruptcy court, Congress, a federal arbitrator, the current contract, a ratified new contract, the system board, other court decisions, the NMB, Nicolau, President Obama through a Presidential emergency board

...... just to name a few.

underpants

These are the only scenarios;

1. USAirways goes into chapter 11 followed by chapter 7.

2. Another merger occurs in which case the nicolau list will be merged into the acquiring/acquired carrier's seniority list.

3. USAirways survives as a stand alone in which case we will continue to operate under two contracts until every other carrier is earning significantly more than we do. As that day dawns and we continue to earn yesterday's pay in tomorrow's economy east pilots will eventually ratify a new contract. By definition that new contract will contain the Nicolau derived seniority list.

There is now zero chance that a new contract will exist with a do-over, east fantasy, new seniority list.

 

[Metroyet]

The East pilots, the BPR, Judge Wake, the 9th circuit appeals court, SCOTUS, the Addington class representitives, the West pilots by vote, the company, the next merger partner, bankruptcy court, Congress, a federal arbitrator, the current contract, a ratified new contract, the system board, other court decisions, the NMB, Nicolau, President Obama through a Presidential emergency board

...... just to name a few.

underpants

Damn that pesky *permanent* injunction.

East pilots lost the DFR

BPR lost the DFR

Judge Wake...well I think we know how he feels about this.

The ninth won't touch the ruling, at best it goes back to Wake...see above.

SCOTUS...same thing. You still don't understand what this case is about. Most of you don't.

The Addington reps would just get sued by other West members as there was only ONE legally agreed to process to arrive at seniority integration. ALPA merger policy. Done.

The West has no mechanism for separate vote. Besides, the millions in donations and the 90+% participation in Leonidas speak for themselves about that one.


The Company? They made it clear...under oath that they already have a list...the Nic.

The rest of your delusional laundry list is laughable. All of those entities...including the President of the United States has to abide by the law. The Injunction has all of these bases covered. You lost in court. That's how it works in America.

The West played by the rules and you guys didn't. That's Life...and the Law.

 

[ableoneable]

I see that USAPA has filed their brief with the 9th - about a week past the deadline.

More legal excellence from team Seham.

 

[Reed Richards]

2010 is in the current decade genius. 2011 is the first year of the next decade. No year zero.

It was actually a figure of speech...but now that you bring it up: (and again, boy oh boy are we getting touchy lately..anything cooking?)

I saw a lot of this discussion going on around Y2K, when many felt the celebration was off by a year. The best I heard it explained was with a question, "was someone born on January 1, 1900 a citizen of the 19th Century or 20th Century? Same logic, take it or leave it.

Your genius,

RR