US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Damn, those were some horrid W-2 s all those years. I heard it was bad, I didn't know it was THIS bad!

Swan,

Those are not W-2s, those are average pay scales. You might notice the decline in numbers in 98 99 etc. That is because when 30% of your pilot group is on first year probation pay, it brings the average down. In the same way that if you counted the 1700 furloughed pilots getting paid nothing at AAA in 2004, your average pay would be around 40k per pilot, pretty miserable statistic, only getting 40k per year for 330 flying?????? See where you are interpreting the statistic incorrectly?

PS. just an aside, but in 98 and 99 AWA had the highest first year pay scale of any major airline. I will conceed that the post 5 years pay scales were however lacking very much behind the industry.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Swan,

Those are not W-2s, those are average pay scales.

Don't bother BS or MM with facts. They care as little about facts as Nosum. They just want something to taunt the westies with...factual info is not wanted since it makes the taunting more difficult

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Don't bother BS or MM with facts. They care as little about facts as Nosum. They just want something to taunt the westies with...factual info is not wanted since it makes the taunting more difficult

Jim

BB- we get taunted with the LOA 93 stuff all the time. I really had not seen that pay scale before, and it was honestly pretty bad. Anyway, there is hope in the air with the possibility of Kasher making LOA 93 pay restoration a reality. Don't bother rebutting, we know it is diabolical and never going to happen according to the aviation scholars and pundits on the board. Of course we will offer to split it with the west pilots in the interest of fairness........

 

[nic4us]

BB- we get taunted with the LOA 93 stuff all the time. I really had not seen that pay scale before, and it was honestly pretty bad. Anyway, there is hope in the air with the possibility of Kasher making LOA 93 pay restoration a reality. Don't bother rebutting, we know it is diabolical and never going to happen according to the aviation scholars and pundits on the board. Of course we will offer to split it with the west pilots in the interest of fairness........

My point was that it is not a "pay scale"...it is average pay.

Like I said though, the pay scales did lag industry "major airline pay", however, AWA was very new at the major status, and still had a national airline type of feel and operating structure. When compared to ATA, AirTran, Jet Blue and others at the time, the AWA "pay scales" were pretty much right in line with everybody else, if not better.

I tried searching for news on Kasher after the post speculating he passed away but found nothing, anybody else get any info?

 

[Black Swan]

My point was that it is not a "pay scale"...it is average pay.

Like I said though, the pay scales did lag industry "major airline pay", however, AWA was very new at the major status, and still had a national airline type of feel and operating structure. When compared to ATA, AirTran, Jet Blue and others at the time, the AWA "pay scales" were pretty much right in line with everybody else, if not better.

I tried searching for news on Kasher after the post speculating he passed away but found nothing, anybody else get any info?

That is one, really, really bad rumor. There is nothing out there to substantiate it. No obit.

 

[CallawayGolf]

That is one, really, really bad rumor. There is nothing out there to substantiate it. No obit.

Someone must be confusing Kasher with the USAPA grievance on LOA93. One is dead the other isn't.

 

[BoeingBoy]

BB- we get taunted with the LOA 93 stuff all the time. I really had not seen that pay scale before, and it was honestly pretty bad.

I would hope that you paid attention to Nic4's explanation that what Nosum published wasn't a pay scale. Just looking at US pilot's chart for 2000 should indicate that - $119K and change for the average pilot. I think that every captain working made more than that and a lot of F/O's did too. Heck, 2000 included the first "parity + 1%" so GpII captains were making about $170-175K/year so explain that $119+ "pay scale".

As for taunts over LOA 93, that does contain a pay scale (the lowest of the major airlines) as well as other concessions. Taunting based on facts, while not the best way to create unity or earn friends, if still far better than taunting based on a little data taken out of context and misrepresented.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

I would hope that you paid attention to Nic4's explanation that what Nosum published wasn't a pay scale. Just looking at US pilot's chart for 2000 should indicate that - $119K and change for the average pilot. I think that every captain working made more than that and a lot of F/O's did too. Heck, 2000 included the first "parity + 1%" so GpII captains were making about $170-175K/year so explain that $119+ "pay scale".

As for taunts over LOA 93, that does contain a pay scale (the lowest of the major airlines) as well as other concessions. Taunting based on facts, while not the best way to create unity or earn friends, if still far better than taunting based on a little data taken out of context and misrepresented.

Jim

LOA 93 got my down vote due to the fact that the time period was too long, and especially the vacation not enough to compensate for the W2 given. I took the date of Dec. 31 09 as the end date, which at the time was too far out. Regardless, my opinion is Kasher is going to see the date put in for the pay had a discussion and time on it. There is a reason for that, and you know my beliefs. I say the west is going to be wishing they had the LOA 93 pay restoration numbers we get and very soon I hope.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I didn't like anything about LOA 93 (or the way the MEC sold it) but I think the duration was tied into the forecasts necessary to keep the ATSB at bay plus other loans/financing. IIRC, US had to have a 5 year plan to show that it could survive in order to exit BK. Of course, that plan came crashing down with lack of cash by the spring of 2005 so the merger became the plan.

Jim

 

[CactusPilot1]

This is going to be very entertaining. Between the west, and the east, Parker is starting to lose control. The F/A group will certainly have some surprises for him, as well as the mechanics. Maybe something good will come out of all of this. You say Kirby is the one to do the CLT show?

Looks like Parker in CLT unless he calls in sick. I guess he should wear a teflon suit if it goes the way you say. B)

CLT Crew News Next Week May 19, 2011
On Wednesday, May 25, Chairman and CEO Doug Parker will host CLT Crew News at the CLT Flight Training Center, room 210/212. The flight attendant session will run from 11:30 a.m. to 12:10 p.m. and the pilot session will run from 12:30 to 1:30 p.m. ET.

 

[luvthe9]

Looks like Parker in CLT unless he calls in sick. I guess he should wear a teflon suit if it goes the way you say. B)

CLT Crew News Next Week May 19, 2011
On Wednesday, May 25, Chairman and CEO Doug Parker will host CLT Crew News at the CLT Flight Training Center, room 210/212. The flight attendant session will run from 11:30 a.m. to 12:10 p.m. and the pilot session will run from 12:30 to 1:30 p.m. ET.

I wonder why Dougie is so terriified to show up in PHL, CLT training center is so safe, the check airmen are forced to go, how lame. He would probalby need a kevlar suit up here, and that just for the ground folks let alone this pilot group. At minimum also at least a six pack.

 

[CactusPilot1]

I wonder why Dougie is so terriified to show up in PHL, CLT training center is so safe, the check airmen are forced to go, how lame. He would probalby need a kevlar suit up here, and that just for the ground folks let alone this pilot group. At minimum also at least a six pack.

I think he realizes that he would need Kevlar for Philly. Check airmen are forced to go? Training is not stopped for Crew News in Phx. Not even to buy Doug a six pack.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Was this display of resolve organized by USAPA? That's what a labor union would do, right? Cleary was there, wasn't he? C'mon tell me he was rallying his troops. C'mon tell me he was fulfilling his elected duties. C'mon tell me he was earning his pay. C'mon!!!!

So who were the people that mobilized such a strong show of support? Do they have a DVD or something on building strength through unity that they could send to Cleary and Mowery?

Perhaps the next two leaders of USAPA's replacement have made their debut to a watching and waiting pilot group. And they like what they see!

I think this is one time where Parker would have liked having Cleary in the room with him.
He could have used him as a human shield to absorb the beating he took yesterday. :blink:

 

[flyinawa]

I wonder why Dougie is so terriified to show up in PHL, CLT training center is so safe, the check airmen are forced to go, how lame. He would probalby need a kevlar suit up here, and that just for the ground folks let alone this pilot group. At minimum also at least a six pack.

Maybe the same reason Cleary and company refuse to do a meeting in Phoenix?

 

[crazystnic]

This is going to be very entertaining. Between the west, and the east, Parker is starting to lose control. The F/A group will certainly have some surprises for him, as well as the mechanics. Maybe something good will come out of all of this. You say Kirby is the one to do the CLT show?

*********************

Swann, you are correct.. I predicted this months ago... Parker is starting to lose control... Good for the west if they see him for what he is.