US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

Big Deal - Plenty of people have no debt, me among them. You claim you can live within your means, then why not live up to your legal obligations under binding arbitration.

You should forward that last one to the so-called NAC. Unless a junior E-190 F/O really might accept $124/hr, which is the only way your post makes any sense.

Luvn. You have to agree that the formation of USAPA, and the subsequent installation of the same before the Nicolau was implemented, was a tactical and successful legal move by the east pilots. Opinions aside as to the moral or ethical feelings toward same. The fact is, it was a successful and legal strategy. Imploring east pilots to accept the Nicolau, is a failed strategy. You have to know that. Were you not at Wye? Did you not attend the brief where even ALPA cautioned that seniority is negotiable, and the Nicolau merely a bargaining position in an internal union struggle? I realize some do not understand bargaining agents and positions and the term "binding" as applied to the same, but you obviously have to. You need to educate some of those on your side as to the reality of internal union bargaining positions. Binding arbitration, in this case, obviously does not apply nor can it be enforced. If it could have been binding or enforceable, it would have been done. The Addington debacle proved that.Subsequently, the 9th made the fact clear the Nicolau was just a position, and one that not necessarily would be the final solution. Why, knowing what YOU do, do you continue the charade that the Nic has to be used Or are you merely trying to persuade?

 

[Black Swan]

USAPA's primary export is picket line crossers. USAPA's picket line is patterned after the Mummers, however they are called the Dumbers. Also, the Mummers Parade is attended my thousands, the Dumbers might get 5 if they're lucky.

USAPA Picket Line - PHL

I'd high-step right through a Dumbers Parade. However a legitimate union? That line in sacred. I sure wish someone would explain the difference to Cleary.

If you are actually who I think you are, this is an incredibly desperate remark. The remarks about Cleary, are a waste. He was our choice, and he clearly understands how to deal with the attacks on him. Your remarks do nothing to convert any east pilots. In fact, it makes our resolve even firmer. Why don't you address what I asked you instead of the childish Mummers remarks? I asked you, how do you claim it is final and binding as you say, after what Freund told you himself at WYE? Your answer?

 

[Black Swan]

The final decision by Kasher, either way- will be final and binding. Do you understand arbitration between a union and a company and the difference between arbitration involving pilots within a union? I firmly say the arbitration between a union and its' pilots is NOT binding as you claim. Especially when they change unions. Your opinion Luvn?

 

[fodase]

The final decision by Kasher, either way- will be final and binding. Do you understand arbitration between a union and a company and the difference between arbitration involving pilots within a union? I firmly say the arbitration between a union and its' pilots is NOT binding as you claim. Especially when they change unions. Your opinion Luvn?

"binding" arbitration is used everyday in civil cases and is most surely binding on the parties, it is federal law. The difference here is that this has never happened before and so the courts don't want to touch it. The 9th says they won't get into the "thorny" issue, because in fact the east has made it so, on one hand the union and company can amend a contract whenever they want, as they should. Of course never in the history of labor has a union been created to hurt a minority, btw the 7th circuit (air wisconsin case)said if that were to happen it would be illegal, all the 9th said is it hasn't happen yet so they won't answer the question.

 

[A320 Driver]

USAPA's primary export is picket line crossers. USAPA's picket line is patterned after the Mummers, however they are called the Dumbers. Also, the Mummers Parade is attended my thousands, the Dumbers might get 5 if they're lucky.

USAPA Picket Line - PHL

I'd high-step right through a Dumbers Parade. However a legitimate union? That line in sacred. I sure wish someone would explain the difference to Cleary.

Spoken like a TRUE scab. That won't wash off.

Driver B)

 

[fodase]

BTW PI, can you please comment on the seniority chart I posted?

 

[Metroyet]

Spoken like a TRUE scab. That won't wash off.

Driver B)

The stink of USCABA will follow all of you die hards to the grave...a Pauper's Grave that is!

 

[Pi brat]

BTW PI, can you please comment on the seniority chart I posted?

Can't open it on my phone and have to go to work.

I will when I read it.

 

[end_of_alpa]

"binding" arbitration is used everyday in civil cases and is most surely binding on the parties, it is federal law. The difference here is that this has never happened before and so the courts don't want to touch it. The 9th says they won't get into the "thorny" issue, because in fact the east has made it so, on one hand the union and company can amend a contract whenever they want, as they should. Of course never in the history of labor has a union been created to hurt a minority, btw the 7th circuit (air wisconsin case)said if that were to happen it would be illegal, all the 9th said is it hasn't happen yet so they won't answer the question.

Which "Federal law" that you speak of applies to intra-union policies and procedures?

Here is the quote you speak of:

"We need not decide whether, if the plaintiffs and their allies ever succeed in ousting ALPA in favor of a union not pledged to defend the arbitrators' award, the matter of seniority can be reopened in collective bargaining negotiations with the airline, or otherwise revisited. The plaintiffs say the award became a provision of the collective bargaining agreement and expired when that agreement expired. We leave aside the merit of this contention beyond noting that an attempt by a majority of the employees in a collective bargaining unit to gang up against a minority of employees in the fashion apparently envisaged by the plaintiffs could itself be thought a violation of the duty of fair representation by the union that the majority used as its tool. Alvey v. General Electric Co., 622 F.2d 1279, 1289-90 (7th Cir.1980)."

Question #1: What is the legal effect of the statements "We need not decide" and "We leave aside the merit of this contention beyond noting..." ?

Question #2: What did Judge Posner mean when he said: "...an attempt by a majority of the employees in a collective bargaining unit to gang up against a minority of employees in the fashion apparently envisaged by the plaintiffs could itself be thought a violation of the duty of fair representation by the union that the majority used as its tool." or in the alternative, what was ...."(Hint: the answer is highlighted in bold)

I'm going to Rio tonite and won't be back until Sunday, so I don't think I'll be able to respond until Monday. But I'll be looking for your response while I'm there. You may need Nexis/Lexis or WestLaw, because I don't remember if you can google it. Give it a try....

Good luck.

 

[Pi brat]

Can't open it on my phone and have to go to work.

I will when I read it.

I tried it again and got the sign in page to the hangar. I don't have a sign in there.

 

[USA320Pilot]

USAPA PHX Reps Not "Onboard" with USAPA Safety Camp

See Story

 

[doh nogo]

You should be used to that in your career, because you were, you are and always will be an idiot.

Says the biggest idiot on the block!



Hey a**wipe, how many real airlines did you turn down to work for your pathetic, has been, twice bankrupt, almost liquidated, poverty wage paying, 17 year furloughed, international wanna-be, ugly girl at the dance, airline?

PS. rhetorical question. We all know the answer is zero because you couldn't get hired anywhere else, even when you were recently furloughed.

 

[fodase]

I tried it again and got the sign in page to the hangar. I don't have a sign in there.

Crap, usaviation not letting me link to it. It basically follows the career paths of 2 1989 hires and is one of the charts presented during the Nic.

 

[Black Swan]

"binding" arbitration is used everyday in civil cases and is most surely binding on the parties, it is federal law. The difference here is that this has never happened before and so the courts don't want to touch it. The 9th says they won't get into the "thorny" issue, because in fact the east has made it so, on one hand the union and company can amend a contract whenever they want, as they should. Of course never in the history of labor has a union been created to hurt a minority, btw the 7th circuit (air wisconsin case)said if that were to happen it would be illegal, all the 9th said is it hasn't happen yet so they won't answer the question.

Fodase, are you really serious? You are telling me, "it is federal law..." your next statement "The difference here is that this has never happened before and so the courts don't want to touch it." Honestly, is that why the courts won't touch it, or is it maybe because this is not "federal law" and if it is, please tell us what "federal" statute it violates.I would say they were way ahead of you in understanding this has nothing to do with law, and everything to do with internal union issues. That is the reason they did nothing, because they know they CAN'T do a thing. This is exactly what I was saying to Luvn. He was there, and should know better, and inform you, and there is you, who unknowingly? perpetuates the myth of what it is. The 9th certainly got into it, and Wake got spanked severely. The case was "erased" as in abomination or abortion of law. If you keep going this way, Leonidas is Luvn you, because they don't get it either. Bottom line is this- your sue happy Leonidas would absolutely be on the Federal Gov't hard if there was a Federal Statute that was being ignored, go ahead and ask them why they chose to let this one slide yet foolishly fell all over themselves to spend millions on an unripe case. Ask Aquagreen 737 about that one, he is the one that took your money and spent it all on that disaster. A little birdie told me he was consumed with other matters, something about admin leave for identity theft of something.

 

[Black Swan]

Luvn, what do you say? You were there at Wye.