US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

You do understand what a PID is correct?

That locks the facts. At the PID those pilots were FURLOUGHED. My question is do you want the 2005 east pilots on the list or not?

Would that have made you happy if he had taken 300 east pilots that left and replaced them wth 300 furloughed pilots? Would you have accepted that list?

What was the PID? The actual date.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi;
We know exactly what you, sum/nos, luv, crazy, NLG and the rest of the kids think. These messages are intended for the lurkers that may read this stuff.

Exactly, and posters like you, fodase, metroyet, ames, prechillie,and nic4us have done a bang up job of educating them! Thanks!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Would that have made you happy if he had taken 300 east pilots that left and replaced them wth 300 furloughed pilots? Would you have accepted that list?

Whether the pilots on both side that left between the PID and the award being issues are included or not is really not a big deal - having them on the Nic list just means that the bottom pilots would appear lower than they actually were.

Pi and USAPA just want to move the PID to some later date so that the East gets the benefit of post-merger events while the West suffers the consequences of post-merger events. USAPA chose a date in 2007 and it seems like Pi would like to do the same.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

What was the PID? The actual date.

It was either May 2005 or September 2005.

Do you want the pilots that left between 2005 and 2007 on the list or not?

 

[Pi brat]

It was either May 2005 or September 2005.

Do you want the pilots that left between 2005 and 2007 on the list or not?

Patience scooter. You find out which one and I will get back to you, if you really want.

 

[Pi brat]

Whether the pilots on both side that left between the PID and the award being issues are included or not is really not a big deal - having them on the Nic list just means that the bottom pilots would appear lower than they actually were.

Pi and USAPA just want to move the PID to some later date so that the East gets the benefit of post-merger events while the West suffers the consequences of post-merger events. USAPA chose a date in 2007 and it seems like Pi would like to do the same.

Jim

Really? Hmmmm............

 

[nevergiveup]

The ONLY experienced person on that committee (and frankly the one who should have been in charge, based on seniority AND experience) asked the BPR time and time again for help (as the inexperienced NAC members couldn't negotiate a new contract if one was delivered gift wrapped at their feet). That committee member gave the NAC an ultimatum to help properly staff the NAC.......guess what? Cleary & BPR poo-pooed his request (imagine the BPR not giving any credence to a PHX based pilot...what are the odds???).

According to industry EXPERTS, America West Airlines (at the time of the merger) was growing, hiring, and upgrading. Wall Street couldn't throw enough money at Mr. Parker & AWA (I don't think you can say the same thing for AAA).

Pi;
We know exactly what you, sum/nos, luv, crazy, NLG and the rest of the kids think. These messages are intended for the lurkers that may read this stuff.

Lurkers;
Are you tired of living on RJ wages? Have you figured out that DOH isn't going to happen? Have you figured out that USAPA is a paper tiger with NO TEETH? Mr. Parker and LCC are earning MILLIONS off of your backs as they watch USAPA's fruitless chase for Date of Hire. Ultimately the Nicolau list is the ONLY list that goes forward (even to a merger with any other carrier). Isn't it time for a change?

Please take the time to visit the following website: http://www.reformusapa.com/

Help us make USAPA the union that it was destined to be!

They may have been growing, hiring, and upgrading, but that can always come to a screaming halt for one reason or another as you have well found out. Such as life in this industry. Welcome to the club!

 

[cactusboy53]

Exactly, and posters like you, fodase, metroyet, ames, prechillie,and nic4us have done a bang up job of educating them! Thanks!

No worries Pi. We're a little like Fox New.....Fair & Balanced (or reasonably balanced... )!!

Did you read Brochure 4. It's a big hit! Full of truth and documentation (unlike USAPA's reply....full of conjecture, lies and a butt load of incorrect "facts"). The truth shall set you free....... B)

 

[cleardirect]

Patience scooter. You find out which one and I will get back to you, if you really want.

From the Nicolau award first sentence. You may try reading it sometime.

On May 19, 2005, US Airways and America West Airlines announced that they would merge, taking the name US Airways.

May 19, 2005 zippy. But does it matter? How big a difference would 4 months make?

Do you want the pilots that left between May 19, 2005 the PID and the 2007 list to on the list or not?

 

[No Land Green]

WTF business is that of yours? Moreover, what relevance does my balance sheet have to do with the fact that you all choose to be the lowest paid major pilots in the western hemisphere?

Your flippant attitude got you that one. Obviously you are in debt up to your neck. I could care less. Many of us got our finances in order before LOA 93. The biggest whiners about LOA 93 are ALPA lovers, the West, and those who voted YES for LOA 93, oh and you Metro.

I'll be just fine finishing out my years left here on LOA 93.

Debt free since 1997. Have a nice career. LMAO!

 

[cactusboy53]

They may have been growing, hiring, and upgrading, but that can always come to a screaming halt for one reason or another as you have well found out. Such as life in this industry. Welcome to the club!

Never;
That’s the beauty o f the PID (Policy Initiation Date). We are speaking specifically of the PID of AWA’s acquisition of AAA. I believe that the PID for this “merger” took place in May 2005. Apparently we need a memory lesson in the financial state of the airlines when the PID was set.

Let’s have a look at the expert testimony of Mr. Bob Mann during the arbitration proceedings (January 09, 2007):

FREUND: Could you describe in your own terms basically what it is that you are going to be taking us through?

MANN: Well, it is a comparison of two airlines, a tale of two airlines, if you will, and it goes straight to the long term trends in both infrastructure, fleet, operating metrics, block hours, and employment, particularly of pilots, at these two firms, and some of the reasons why one firm, despite experiencing the same cyclicality that the industry has basically, is forced or that the industry faces from competitive forces, economic forces outside and inside, one airline was able to grow steadily while the other airline suffered a long decline.

FREUND: And I take the airline that was able to grow steadily in your judgement was America West and the airline that was in steady decline was US
Airways; is that correct?

MANN: That is correct.

The germane topic is who was where in May 2005, NOT who is where May 2011. On the topic of arbitration, this one Is both FINAL and BINDING. No pilot seniority arbitration has EVER been overturned by the courts (let alone by the antics of the antithesis of a “union”).

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey Pi;
I just got an update from the NAC. Under to guidance that "if it's East, it MUST be better", the NAC has chosen to stay with the AAA rendition of Sick / Short Term Disability.... :blink:

The AWA Short Term Disability program is INDUSTRY LEADING. During the JNC process, both sides agreed that this was a superior system for the pilots vs. a large sick bank. The company and both AAA & AWA negotiators had agreed to this as one of the sections in the new contract (before you poo-poo this, you really should read it in C2004).

USAPA approved opening up ALL CONTRACT SECTIONS (there were over 25 CLOSED), and the NAC has successfully proposed to give this to the company (isn't it enough that you give them $$ by staying on LOA 93??)!!! No improvement for the East, buy by golly you have managed to take from the West. Yep. Real men of genius!

USAPA = Robbing from the not so rich to give to the richer!

 

[Pi brat]

From the Nicolau award first sentence. You may try reading it sometime.



May 19, 2005 zippy. But does it matter? How big a difference would 4 months make?

Do you want the pilots that left between May 19, 2005 the PID and the 2007 list to on the list or not?

Hmm, that was the date the merger was announced. Here is a definition of PID:

Policy Initiation Date (PID) means the date on which the respective MEC Chairmen and
the Executive Council determine that a reasonable probability of a merger being

consummated exists or the date on which the Executive Council determines that a
reasonable probability of a merger being consummated exists, whichever is earlier.


So, are you sure it was May 19, 2005, because I really, really want to give you every benefit of the doubt..........and rope.

That's Captain Zippy to you son.

 

[Pi brat]

No worries Pi. We're a little like Fox New.....Fair & Balanced (or reasonably balanced... )!!

Did you read Brochure 4. It's a big hit! Full of truth and documentation (unlike USAPA's reply....full of conjecture, lies and a butt load of incorrect "facts"). The truth shall set you free....... B)

Well, you know what CB? I started to read the brochure, but when I got to the lie about being promised a DOH list, the rest really didn't hold much for me. I don't remember any comments form you about the half-truths I highlighted from the other brochures. What happened? How about the "lie" about USAPA graph for EF's seniority and Nic windfall. Want to take a stab at the one since fodase won't/can't show his work?

 

[cactusboy53]

Well, you know what CB? I started to read the brochure, but when I got to the lie about being promised a DOH list, the rest really didn't hold much for me. I don't remember any comments form you about the half-truths I highlighted from the other brochures. What happened? How about the "lie" about USAPA graph for EF's seniority and Nic windfall. Want to take a stab at the one since fodase won't/can't show his work?

Sorry Boss, but it is a FACT that the AAA MEC told the AAA MC that it was going to be DOH for the negotiations PERIOD. Stephan massaged the updates in the manner of Kevin Bacon during the parade on Animal House (ALL IS WELL! ALL IS WELL!).

I will look for some supporting documents for that. Regarding your highlighted "half-truths", I will also look at those accusations.

Graphs of EF? Who cares? How about graphs of the #1 AAA pilot? How about graphs of Cliff Diver? How about graphs of Phil Dirt?

Our graphs are intended to show the digression between DOH, AWA & AAA lists & the Nicolau list. BOTTOM LINE: This arbitration is DONE. It is FINAL. It is BINDING. The Nicolau list is the list that sits on Parker's desk, and it will be the only list legally allowed in any other merger. PERIOD.

Are you willing to gamble what gains you can have NOW, or do you want to wait MUCH longer and still have the SAME RESULT and NO MONEY or CONTRACT GAINS?

Visit http://www.reformusapa.com/

Help us build a better union. The union dues that we waste in legal fees MUST be set up for the next MERGER. Failing to see the forest for the trees will have serious consequences.