US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

It's still not a promise. You cannot promise for someone else.

You're not that niave - the union can promise anything it wants on your behalf. That's what being the legal representative means.

When did I ever defend nos?

When did you ever take him to task until the other day? Nos calls the west scabs, drug runners, drunk while flying, etc - the worst he can come up with and painting the west with a broad brush. No one on the east admonished him for it, then when he was attacked with the "perv" label there was a chorus of "that's over the line" from east posters. So if the east is content with the west being painted with a broad brush, they should have no problem being treated the same. I even gave warning that I was going to do it, but still nothing was done about NOS. You were like those who watch a terrible crime being committed but do nothing to stop it with your "Who me - but I didn't do anything. I'm pure as the driven snow."

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

It's still not a promise. You cannot promise for someone else.

When did I ever defend nos?

Ok. What OTHER cornerstone of the USCABA c&bl isn't a "promise"?

 

[nic4us]

I applaud all USAPA volunteers that contribute to the betterment of the pilots' collective profession and despise those who only criticize and never offer help.
The old addage applies here: Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

As you wish.

Reinforcement in leadership to render usapa useless until its reform or replacement is under way.

I applaud those who criticize usapa and their constant DFR violations toward the West. Those pilots who have fought against the tyranny of the majority, the degredation usapa has brought upon our pilot group and the profession, especially those who have risked personal loss.

 

[fodase]

It's still not a promise. You cannot promise for someone else.

When did I ever defend nos?

And ther u have it. Your mec promised you doh or nothing, there were 3 petitions signed by the east pilots for doh or nothing. Your mec threaten to recall your mc if they accepted anything but doh. You didn't get doh so formed a union who's constitutional mandate is doh or nothing. What a coincidence huh? As for the seniority charts I refer you to leonidas second brochure. You will notice that leonidas chart is a seniority chart, not an age vs. Position chart, it actually shows all pilots on the list in seniority order, nicolau and doh. It is an undisputable truth that the only true depiction of seniority are the aol charts.

 

[nic4us]

PS - it was the East MEC that all but promised DOH by restricting the MC to that outcome only. When it didn't happen, the founders of USAPA gathered support by saying that the best chance of getting DOH was through what became USAPA. They pushed the emotional buttons provided by the East desire for DOH to get elected. But to the best of my memory they never promised DOH, they just made it look easily achieveable given the East majority.

Seeham, on video at a pre-election PHL roadshow...."we can get DOH in exchange for a cost neutral contract".

What the little lawyer and the usapian faithful failed to grasp was that the company could maintain the status quo "cost neutral" without any exchange. Actually, it was and is safer for the company to tell usapa to pound sand with their DOH proposal, and the company safely retains the 'cost neutral" aspect. No usapa needed.

 

[Pi brat]

You're not that niave - the union can promise anything it wants on your behalf. That's what being the legal representative means.



When did you ever take him to task until the other day? Nos calls the west scabs, drug runners, drunk while flying, etc - the worst he can come up with and painting the west with a broad brush. No one on the east admonished him for it, then when he was attacked with the "perv" label there was a chorus of "that's over the line" from east posters. So if the east is content with the west being painted with a broad brush, they should have no problem being treated the same. I even gave warning that I was going to do it, but still nothing was done about NOS. You were like those who watch a terrible crime being committed but do nothing to stop it with your "Who me - but I didn't do anything. I'm pure as the driven snow."

Jim

You're not that dense, you just can't admit you're wrong or say anything against the west. The union has authority, but it can't promise a third party will do anything. You've said as much before when you make fun of Usapa.

You have some bizarre logic and ethics. Are either of your parents still alive? Is so, run that explanation of your actions by them and let me lnow what they say.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You're not that dense, you just can't admit you're wrong or say anything against the west. The umion has authority, but it can't promise a third party will do anything.

Still got to get that dagger twisted if you disagree. You're just like BS and others - anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong and subjected to insult or ridicule.

You're wrong, dead wrong. The union can promise whatever it likes - DOH, an industry standard contract, pay restoration, pay parity back to the merger date, you name it. What the union can't do in any of those cases is necessarily deliver on the promise if another party's (or 2 or 3 others) agreement is necessary to make it happen.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Still got to get that dagger twisted if you disagree. You're just like BS and others - anyone who disagrees is automatically wrong and subjected to insult or ridicule.

You're wrong, dead wrong. The union can promise whatever it likes - DOH, an industry standard contract, pay restoration, pay parity back to the merger date, you name it. What the union can't do in any of those cases is necessarily deliver on the promise if another party's (or 2 or 3 others) agreement is necessary to make it happen.

Jim

I can promise you won't be an ahole tool, but anyone that would believe me about that would be an idiot!

You made me work for that one!

 

[nic4us]

We Just Got Screwed By Parrella

Results of this settlement should include.

1. All West pilots paying usapa dues or fees demand an immediate auditing of their usapa accounts, and recalibration for future dues and fees withheld, to reflect that they had this training overpayment assesed for dues in the past.

2. All West pilots should immediately file grievences against usapa for failing to persue the company change in ACARS block out methodology. Demanding the east be put back on to aircraft movement and the West returned to only cabin door opening for block in.

3. All West pilots should file grievences over the change in block in methodology, seeking and additional 5 minutes pay for every flight they have conducted since the change.

4. All West MIGs should petition their reps to seek the resignation of f/o Parella from the chair of the grievence committe, for her flagrant failure to persue West grievences and supporting usapa's DFR behavior.

5. All West pilots should file grievences against the company for an amount 2x the training pay issue, for failing to apply past practices equally by not collecting overpayments from east pilots, yet seeking similar sums from West pilots.



OR.......??????

 

[BoeingBoy]

I can promise you won't be an ahole tool, but anyone that would believe me about that would be an idiot!

I guess that's the closest you can get to saying that I was right...but in concession you have to get that slam in. The transition from being able to reasonably discuss issues to NOS the attack dog is almost complete.

Jim

PS - here's a test for you. Take any east permanent bid over the last two years and add up the captain positions and FO positions. See if captain positions outnumber FO positions. That'll show how "smart ass" my answer to that question was. Then you can apologize (but I'm not holding my breath for that one).

 

[No Land Green]

The majority of guys I fly with say they didn't come think it would come in exactly as our merger committee proposed, they just didn't think it would be, in their opinion, as far out of whack as the Nic.

Very true Pi brat, hence the beginning of a long, drawn out dispute. Had the West had the vision to do something "better" than "staple" a 1988 DOH Pilot who was on furlough at the time, and knowing all too well the attrition the East brought to the merger, well, this dispute would have never happened. Talking to East Merger Committee Members and Wye River participants, the West would never allow any East pilot below bottom active East Pilot Monda go ahead of bottom West pilot O'Dell. That mindset from the onset of the Seniority Integration Process has led us to where we are today.

"Better" doesn't necessarily equate to DOH either. "Better" should have started at length of service and went from there. But to be fair, the West has had pilots on furlough over the course of their existence too and that should have been included in figuring out a joint seniority list.

Seniority arbitration is a cop out, just passes the blame. Both sides should have been locked up in a room until something that both sides could live with was agreed upon. That could still happen, even Judge Silver asked that question.

Fire away.......

 

[No Land Green]

Results of this settlement should include.

1. All West pilots paying usapa dues or fees demand an immediate auditing of their usapa accounts, and recalibration for future dues and fees withheld, to reflect that they had this training overpayment assesed for dues in the past.

2. All West pilots should immediately file grievences against usapa for failing to persue the company change in ACARS block out methodology. Demanding the east be put back on to aircraft movement and the West returned to only cabin door opening for block in.

3. All West pilots should file grievences over the change in block in methodology, seeking and additional 5 minutes pay for every flight they have conducted since the change.

4. All West MIGs should petition their reps to seek the resignation of f/o Parella from the chair of the grievence committe, for her flagrant failure to persue West grievences and supporting usapa's DFR behavior.

5. All West pilots should file grievences against the company for an amount 2x the training pay issue, for failing to apply past practices equally by not collecting overpayments from east pilots, yet seeking similar sums from West pilots.



OR.......??????

Are you a MIGS?

 

[nic4us]

Are you a MIGS?

No.

Does that somehow release usapa of their DFR to me?

 

[Black Swan]

Seriously? You STILL don't understand how all of this works? AOL is not empowered what so ever to negotiate a settlement. They have NEVER had such authority. One union. That's it. It's nic or nothing because that's what the real men of genius carved into stone in the back of their pickle ball van. If that's the "dead Ender" so goes any hope of ever realizing contractual improvements. Honestly, I can't believe this kind of stuff still needs to be explained.

Piedmont- there was a day when even ALPA knew and tried to get the west to avoid going to the wall with the Nic. They knew it wouldn't work. They also were very clear that it was an internal union dispute, and a bargaining position. Negotiable. There was room for compromise. Now, you see where you sit. If you don't capitulate to anything but the Nic, they claim lawsuits till time ends. Just look at their last 5- posts. This group is going to sue you forever, unless you stuff it where the sun doesn t shine, and stuff it good and hard in a legal sense. Somehow, they cannot understand what the 9th ruling meant. Just because they have some crackpot Leonidas group urging them on like a bunch of monkeys doesn t mean anything. Leonidas is giving some of the worst advice ever. All you have to do is look at Addington. They were so inept they blew 2 million for a case that was never ripe. And they will justify it because it was running out of time. So what. It never had merit. Why would you do that? Because their amateur pilot-lawyers should have decided on one or the other, pilot, or lawyer. Sound familiar in our past? And what happened? 2 million gone like the wind, and a bunch of stupid flyers they think will convince you of their version of what you should do. Very soon, in my opinion, they will get a legal ruling that will be both barrels at them. Right after it came out, the west and BB fled the board. That is, until they re wrote history, and re-interpreted the 9th. Then the running gunfight started again.Their first retreat was telling. They knew the truth, then someone convinced them otherwise, again. You are just going to have to be patient, and wait for the clarification . Both sides. I have my theory on it, but that will just bring another battle, so I am sitting on it until then. There is not going to be any contract for a long, long time. Your hope, and there really is only one, is the Kasher decision going your way. Of course they are going to say it was disingenuous of you to and USAPA to go for it. So if you can't figure it out, you are expected to give in to a ruling the 9th said you didn't have to, and surrender years you don't have to to someone who wasn't around for years, and you are expected to roll over and completely disregard the language in LOA 93. And if you don't do it, you have no integrity, and Boeing Boy says you suck. That, is the reality of it. You tell me if it is different. Personally, I am up for the battle and I really don't care what they say. I read the 9th ruling. It is very clear. I also read the LOA 93 pay restoration language, and it is very clear. I stand by both. Leonidas will be the worst decision they ever made to back. Nicolau will be something they should have looked at like a bank truck going down the road with the doors open and money flying out. It ain t ever going to amount to anything.

 

[luvn737s]

You have to admire a man with a high tolerance for disappointment.