US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CactusPilot1]

I don't think Cleary will get sympathy with the Arizona Attorney General concerning alleged ID theft of any other issue. He's got bigger fish to catch.

No time for small fry.

Feds Sue Arizona Over Union Elections Amendment
NLRB says voter-approved measure violates federal law

WASHINGTON (AP) – Federal labor regulators have sued the state of Arizona over a state constitutional amendment that limits how workers can choose whether they want union representation.

The amendment passed by voters last year requires workers to hold secret ballot elections before a company can be unionized.

The National Labor Relations Board says the amendment interferes with federal law. Current law gives employers the choice of recognizing a union if a majority of workers sign cards, a process known as card check.

Arizona's attorney general has vowed to fight the lawsuit. Business groups that pushed the ballot measure say they fear Congress will require all businesses to recognize card check.

 

[cynic]

Political grandstanding under the guise of safety is the kind of thing that undermines such programs as ASAP and NSRS, but USAPA is too short-sighted to realize this.

It also puts people that actually are concerned with safety under the gun. Way to go guys.

 

[Pi brat]

I know my way around your Airline better than your pilots do.

How's that?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Never was and never claimed to be.

Maybe folks are merely basing their claim on the 12,885 posts you've made. Thus you have FAR, FAR outpaced the next highest poster (maybe me, but I've had an extra year to do it) on this thread by a factor of 3x.

It appears that you think everyone is entitled to YOUR opinion. And, that's something that emperors do, too.

 

[No Land Green]

A money losing, going out of business airline.

No, just another situation where the real estate flippers were getting tired of managing the airline and cleaning the clocks of it's employees. We still have the same situation with the Tempe Realty Group. This airline still hasn't found a management team that wants to make it a stand alone, growing entity and embrace a LUV work culture.

I never bought into "the sky is falling" mentality. If it isn't a viable entity, it will cease to operate no matter how much you give back. So far it hasn't in the past 25+ years.

If you are not willing to draw a line in the sand, reap what you sow. This Company is so fractured now, just sit back enjoy the ride, it's going to take a long time for resolution.

 

[Pi brat]

You have said that if the choice is DOH or Nic (which it is), you'd vote for DOH. If you don't know what that means for east and west pilots that's your problem Mr no logic. You need to keep up with what you say better - it's not my job.

Jim

I've said I don't have line item veto and if a contact with doh is presented and works for my family. I will vote for it. That will also make the west case ripe and we can get to the end game.

That doesn't mean that everything in that contract will be perfect, it never is

 

[Pi brat]

This silly clown is still here performing his act? BTW have any of you clowns gotten the latest Leonidas mailer? It should be arriving this week

Where you been fod boy? Been busy getting together those real numbers about EF's seniority that I asked for ?

Still waiting on freebirds quote from the TA about the agreement to staple furloughed pilots too. Don't worry, I wont hold my breath on either of you.

 

[Black Swan]

So why ask westies to pay for intentional impotence? Cleary could offer the west a dues holiday by signing a sideletter setting aside Agency Shop provisions until a joint contract is signed. In fact set it aside for both sides and we'd see just exactly how much support USAPA has with or without a vote.

I mean, fairness is what USAPA is all about, isn't it? If they don't want to provide a service, they shouldn't charge for it.

The West did nothing for pay parity.That one issue from the start gave us a clear understanding we will never be able to stand with you for a contract. We are not doing anything ever again to merge, work with , or anything. We are going to stand away from you as long as possible. Hopefully forever. That issue was a huge mistake. This one issue has solidified the East to NEVER go for the Nic. You can mail stuff till the cows come home. It means nothing. neither side is ever going to get a contract. Get used to living with what you have. It is all you will ever get from the company.

 

[fodase]

Where you been fod boy? Been busy getting together those real numbers about EF's seniority that I asked for ?

You are to stupid to know what you are talking about, what does an age vs position chart have to do with anything? Unless we were all hired at the same age is meaningless, you dumb clown. What was Eric's relative position is the only chart that means anything, of course that chart exposes what job stealing scumbags you scabs are.

 

[fodase]

The West did nothing for pay parity.That one issue from the start gave us a clear understanding we will never be able to stand with you for a contract. We are not doing anything ever again to merge, work with , or anything. We are going to stand away from you as long as possible. Hopefully forever. That issue was a huge mistake. This one issue has solidified the East to NEVER go for the Nic. You can mail stuff till the cows come home. It means nothing. neither side is ever going to get a contract. Get used to living with what you have. It is all you will ever get from the company.

You dumb clown. Your side wanted to hold us hostage and you wanted us to help you keep the west in a hostage situation? U scabs are to much, even for the circus.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The West did nothing for pay parity.

And the East did less. Walked out on joint contract negotiations - hard to reach a tentative that way, pay parity or not. Spent almost a year forming and voting in USAPA - nothing happened with negotiations and now we're up to 2.5 years. Finally started negotiations under USAPA (no westies allowed or at least a minority that couldn't do anything) and unable to close even the sections that had been previously closed, never mind pay - hard to get pay parity that way. And here we are 5.5 years after the merger with USAPA in charge of negotiations and getting nowhere fast.

So the west was negotiating along side the east for pay parity - a new contract would have provided that. Then east took it's ball and went home, leaving west unable to negotiate at all. But in the east's eyes, it's all somebody elses fault...

Jim

ps - you really should amend your signature to say "Dummies can screw the pooch but idiots try to blame someone else for doing it"

 

[Black Swan]

You dumb clown. Your side wanted to hold us hostage and you wanted us to help you keep the west in a hostage situation? U scabs are to much, even for the circus.

You are pretty funny. Even funnier is the fact our average age here makes us give a crap about your mailers or Eric Ferguson or whoever. You are going down whether you like it or not. Every F/O I fly with I remind of this, and the fact that we subsidize your crap organization. They all realize that keeping you away is the best plan. You are going nowhere fast. They are getting all the attrition and it is coming on strong. Face it, you will NEVER get a contract. Nor will we. We are actually hiring very soon. A bunch.

 

[Metroyet]

Metroyet,

My policy has not changed regarding saftey. If I find something or the F/O finds something, or a F/A finds something it goes in the book, either the fdml or the cml. If the aircraft is safe to fly with the mel I'll fly it as long as I agree with the mel and there are not several other mels. I suppose someone will get in trouble but I document everything that goes on whether we are 3 min. late pushing or we have an mel. I have refused a number of aircraft in the past and have been told by various non-pilot personnel that "they I will call the CP and you will be in trouble". Not once have I had a call from the CP regarding refusal of an aircraft so if all of a sudden they fire me or give me time off for what I have been doing since I've been a captain (1985) I would say they would have a damn poor case. This has nothing to do with Mike Cleary as far as I'm concerned.


Regards,


Bob


Always on board with safety

Everything you're describing is exactly how every other major airline operates. You've stated that you've never gotten into trouble for any safety related items. Rightfully so. Of course.

Now. Let's compare your experiences with the outrageous demands Mike Cleary is making that what's-his-name's be terminated and head served on a silver platter. Have you EVER seen a union make such outrageous demands? Do you actually think Cleary's strategy of scaring the crap out of pax....thus further endangering the employment of the 43k employees, is a wise one that will actually work?

You're talking about legit safety items. Mike Cleary is shouting from the roof tops that unless his demands are met, people are going to be killed en mas....despite any factual basis for such a hyperbolic claim.

You are doing your job, and bringing credit to the profession. Mike Cleary and USAPA with their habit of throwing nothing but targetless, noisy haymakers for the last 3 years brings shame and embarrassment.

If any other major airline...with a different union would have issued such a press release. It'd be on the national news at 6pm. USAPA was entirely ignored...as per normal. That says it all.

 

[Black Swan]

And the East did less. Walked out on joint contract negotiations - hard to reach a tentative that way, pay parity or not. Spent almost a year forming and voting in USAPA - nothing happened with negotiations and now we're up to 2.5 years. Finally started negotiations under USAPA (no westies allowed or at least a minority that couldn't do anything) and unable to close even the sections that had been previously closed, never mind pay - hard to get pay parity that way. And here we are 5.5 years after the merger with USAPA in charge of negotiations and getting nowhere fast.

So the west was negotiating along side the east for pay parity - a new contract would have provided that. Then east took it's ball and went home, leaving west unable to negotiate at all. But in the east's eyes, it's all somebody elses fault...

Jim

ps - you really should amend your signature to say "Dummies can screw the pooch but idiots try to blame someone else for doing it"

Who cares. The reality is these two groups are so divided they will NEVER be able to agree on a deal. We really don't care what your rationale is, or reason. It will never work. Parker is going to keep these two groups divided and conquered forever. Both sides are totally screwed and will be the bottom feeders of the industry until the entire organization folds in 2-3 yrs. I would suggest the younger members start applying to other carriers NOW.

 

[Black Swan]

And the East did less. Walked out on joint contract negotiations - hard to reach a tentative that way, pay parity or not. Spent almost a year forming and voting in USAPA - nothing happened with negotiations and now we're up to 2.5 years. Finally started negotiations under USAPA (no westies allowed or at least a minority that couldn't do anything) and unable to close even the sections that had been previously closed, never mind pay - hard to get pay parity that way. And here we are 5.5 years after the merger with USAPA in charge of negotiations and getting nowhere fast.

So the west was negotiating along side the east for pay parity - a new contract would have provided that. Then east took it's ball and went home, leaving west unable to negotiate at all. But in the east's eyes, it's all somebody elses fault...

Jim

ps - you really should amend your signature to say "Dummies can screw the pooch but idiots try to blame someone else for doing it"

Every time you post, I have a vision of a trailer somewhere in South Carolina, with a bunch of 55 gallon drums everywhere, with a pack of poor German Shepherds chained to them as guard dogs. On top of that trailer are about a dozen dish antennas, tha† occasionally swivel to catch an obscure and mindless message from out west. In that trailer, if one were to open the door, would be a man, wearing boxer shorts and a yellowed pilot shirt with 4 stripes. And that man sits in a swivel chair with wheels, where he can roll to a bank of a dozen or so computers dimly lit in a darkened room..............