US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Jim, you are flat out wrong....again.

there you go treating your opinion as fact...

You are also wrong about me not quoting Parker when he said the east would liquidate. You really should attention if you are going to throw around claims. I've said that I thought US probably would shut down.

So who's wrong? You admit that you don't quote Parket about the east liquidation - he didn't say that the east would "probably" shut down. He flat out said that the east would have liquidated. So where's your quote oh one with egg on face? You constantly quote what Parker now says about both sides needing the merger, but conveniently ignore his statements since the merger that the east would have liquidated. I guess since that quote doesn't fit your argument you conveniently ignore it. Typical eastie - focus on any straw that supports your desires but flatly ignore FACTS that aren't favorable to your argument. So simpleminded that even a bunch of cavemen can, and are, doing it.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Like I said earlier, it just proves that Nic was right - the east did a lot better after the merger than before.

Jim

Jim,

So what?! So has the west. Why does the fact that US probably would not have survived without some form of corporate transaction diminish the value of what the east side brought to the merger? The majority of east assets are still being utilized by the surviving carrier and, according to Doug, providing the majority of the revenue. Why should the theory that the probability of the failure for US was greater than AWA have anything to do with who gets what since neither actually failed?

 

[cleardirect]

Jim,

So what?! So has the west. Why does the fact that US probably would not have survived without some form of corporate transaction diminish the value of what the east side brought to the merger? The majority of east assets are still being utilized by the surviving carrier and according to Doug providing the majority of the revenue. Why should the theory that the probability of the failure for US was greater than AWA have anything to do with who gets what since neither actually failed?

How has the west been better because of the merger?

We have less airplanes and less pilots. No chance of seeing a contract for a long time. Management has decided to reward the east will all of the benefits of this merger.

Tell us what has the west gotten out of this merger?

 

[Pi brat]

there you go treating your opinion as fact...



So who's wrong? You admit that you don't quote Parket about the east liquidation - he didn't say that the east would "probably" shut down. He flat out said that the east would have liquidated. So where's your quote oh one with egg on face? You constantly quote what Parker now says about both sides needing the merger, but conveniently ignore his statements since the merger that the east would have liquidated. I guess since that quote doesn't fit your argument you conveniently ignore it. Typical eastie - focus on any straw that supports your desires but flatly ignore FACTS that aren't favorable to your argument. So simpleminded that even a bunch of cavemen can, and are, doing it.

Jim

I showed you were you were wrong. You make blanket statements that aren't true. Is there any chance that Parker at one time may have said "probably shut down", or "likely"? Yes, he said they would have, but he also said that about Frontier. Why have they not shut down. If you want me to say the US would have absolutely, positively would have shutdown absent a merger with AWA, I can't. I don't know that for sure, maybe Bill Gates was getting ready to clean out his sock drawer and he would have used the proceeds to buy an airline. Maybe another airline was getting ready to make a bid. Maybe Norfolk and Southern was ready to try an airline again. I can't say, and NEITHER CAN YOU! We can give odds, but that's it.

 

[Pi brat]

How has the west been better because of the merger?

We have less airplanes and less pilots. No chance of seeing a contract for a long time. Management has decided to reward the east will all of the benefits of this merger.

Tell us what has the west gotten out of this merger?

According to Doug, a job. Or at least one with an airline that has much better prospects than AWA was looking at.

Remember Death Knell?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

So what?! So has the west. Why does the fact that US probably would not have survived without some form of corporate transaction diminish the value of what the east side brought to the merger?

So what did the east side bring to the merger? A money losing, going out of business airline. I've got Lakefield and Parker supporting my view, what do you have supporting yours besides wishes and rhetoric?

The majority of east assets are still being utilized by the surviving carrier and according to Doug providing the majority of the revenue. Why should the theory that the probability of the failure for US was greater than AWA have anything to do with who gets what since neither actually failed?

Because there was a merger dummy. After a merger, it's supposed to be one pilot group that rises and falls together - that's why the seniority lists are merged. Not one side trying to take all the good while foisting all the bad off on the other side with claims of "We should have all this because we're now making money. I know that will make you squirm - you hate reality - but that's it in a nutshell. USAPA wants the East to have all the good with an empty promise that the West can have theirs 10-15 years down the road. So what happens if US goes out of business in that 10-15 years? Or shrinks by 1/3? When will the westies get theirs if that happens? Rhetorical question - I know you don't care what happens to the westies as long as you can have what you want now...

No, what you want is to use the post-merger success of US (such as it is) to be proof that US wouldn't have liquidated without the merger and thus the east pilots deserve the lion's share of the spoils. Pure greed and nothing else. Like most of the easties that post here, you hate the idea of a snapshot if it's taken in 2005 when the east fortunes were basically non-existent, but love to take a snapshot now - 5.5 years after the merger - and claim that's all that matters.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

So what did the east side bring to the merger? A money losing, going out of business airline. I've got Lakefield and Parker supporting my view, what do you have supporting yours besides wishes and rhetoric?



Because there was a merger dummy. After a merger, it's supposed to be one pilot group that rises and falls together. Not one side trying to take all the good while foisting all the bad off on the other side. I know that will make you squirm - you hate reality - but that's it in a nutshell. USAPA wants the East to have all the good with an empty promise that the West can have theirs 10-15 years down the road. So what happens if US goes out of business in that 10-15 years? When will the westies get theirs if that happens? Rhetorical question - I know you don't care what happens to the westies as long as you can have what you want now...

Jim

I have the fact that the airline is still operating to back up my view. What do you have to PROVE yours? Do you even read? I said the probability was that US would liquidate. What we know, without a shadow of doubt and not subject to opinion or conjecture is THAT IT DIDN'T!!!! Argue that.

I agree the group should rise or fall together. It is my opinion that Nic didn't share that evenly enough. Don't agree? Great, I don't care.

Now, prove that I don't care about what happens to the westies. You made an accusation. PROVE IT!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I have the fact that the airline is still operating to back up my view. What do you have to PROVE yours? Do you even read? I said the probability was that US would liquidate. What we know, without a shadow of doubt and not subject to opinion or conjecture is THAT IT DIDN'T!!!! Argue that.

At least you didn't claim to be quoting Parker this time....

As you admit, you have no proof that US would not have liquidated without the merger. Yes I read but it's apparent that you don't since that's what I said repeatedly. And I've still got Lakefield and Parker supporting my view that US would have liquidated without the merger while you have??? So you want to use the FACT that the merger saved US (so far) to justify the east getting everything they want. So in your profound wisdom, why can't the west use that same argument - they never went out of business. Heck, they didn't even enter bankruptcy in nearly 20 years. So they deserve what they want, just like you and the east. Right? If it's a valid argument for the east it's just as valid for the west.

I agree the group should rise or fall together. It is my opinion that Nic didn't share that evenly enough. Don't agree? Great, I don't care.

And you think I should care what you think???

Now, prove that I don't care about what happens to the westies. You made an accusation. PROVE IT!

Simple, you're always saying that Nic favored the west too much. So your preference must therefore be for the seniority integration to favor the east to the detriment of the west. Your choice of the two solutions offered puts active west captains below east pilots that were furloughed at the time of the merger - that's how much you care about what happens to the westies. You would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger - Parker and Lakefield both say so.

Jim

 

[KTM300]

Simple, you're always saying that Nic favored the west too much. So your preference must therefore be for the seniority integration to favor the east to the detriment of the west. Your choice of the two solutions offered puts active west captains below east pilots what were furloughed at the time of the merger - that's how much you care about what happens to the westies. You would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger - Parker and Lakefield both say so.

Jim

When was it you retired, again?

 

[Pi brat]

At least you didn't claim to be quoting Parker this time....

As you admit, you have no proof that US would not have liquidated without the merger. Yes I read but it's apparent that you don't since that's what I said repeatedly. And I've still got Lakefield and Parker supporting my view that US would have liquidated without the merger while you have??? So you want to use the FACT that the merger saved US (so far) to justify the east getting everything they want. So in your profound wisdom, why can't the west use that same argument - they never went out of business. Heck, they didn't even enter bankruptcy in nearly 20 years. So they deserve what they want, just like you and the east. Right? If it's a valid argument for the east it's just as valid for the west.



And you think I should care what you think???



Simple, you're always saying that Nic favored the west too much. So your preference must therefore be for the seniority integration to favor the east to the detriment of the west. Your choice of the two solutions offered puts active west captains below east pilots what were furloughed at the time of the merger - that's how much you care about what happens to the westies. You would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger - Parker and Lakefield both say so.

Jim

Your logic fails you. Why do you say what I believe or prefer. Where have you seen me say "I would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger"?

Saying that you do not agree with one method does not mean that you must agree with the other. I know that is a strange thought in this "Your wrong, so I'm right" country we now live it.

You continue to say things about me that aren't true, and I believe it is because I had the nerve to call you on something!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Your logic fails you. Why do you say what I believe or prefer. Where have you seen me say "I would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger"?

You have said that if the choice is DOH or Nic (which it is), you'd vote for DOH. If you don't know what that means for east and west pilots that's your problem Mr no logic. You need to keep up with what you say better - it's not my job.

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

If you are not a US pilot how would you know whether or not there are any safety issues at the airline. You are not in the cockpit.

I know my way around your Airline better than your pilots do.

 

[luvn737s]

I will still continue to take "safety" seriously. That's one of the things I'm paid to do.

Good for you. Now tell the Pulled Pork Politburo in CLT to start attending the quarterly FLT Ops meetings with the company and stop removing qualified people from the safety committee.

Political grandstanding under the guise of safety is the kind of thing that undermines such programs as ASAP and NSRS, but USAPA is too short-sighted to realize this.

 

[fodase]

Your logic fails you. Why do you say what I believe or prefer. Where have you seen me say "I would prefer to see west captains reduced to FO's and west FO's furloughed than to have one east pilot wait a little longer for that upgrade that would never have come without the merger"?

Saying that you do not agree with one method does not mean that you must agree with the other. I know that is a strange thought in this "Your wrong, so I'm right" country we now live it.

You continue to say things about me that aren't true, and I believe it is because I had the nerve to call you on something!

This silly clown is still here performing his act? BTW have any of you clowns gotten the latest Leonidas mailer? It should be arriving this week

 

[767one]

Utter Horsesh*t. Just more pathetic lies and attempted attention diversions. Nothing to see here. Talk about baseless posts. US Airways is regarded by the FAA as "1st in Safety". I guess you missed that one. Too busy donning your "On Board" lanyard?

There isn't a single person of any importance in this Country that doesn't see that press release, and other related noisy behaviors for exactly what they are. Terroristic threats against the company to give in to USCABAs demands. It's all your fake union has to offer...threats. Illegal, dangerous threats. Why? Wouldn't you think that the most "senior airline in America" could garner just a smidgen of legitimate respect?

Answer: No. No they can't.

Nobody...and I mean NOBODY cares what USCABA wants or demands. Who's going to be the first few sacrificial lambs led to slaughter by this hare brained "On Board" program?

I promise you this. The hammer is going to come down hard, fast, and irreversibly upon anyone dumb enough to listen to Mike Cleary and uses "safety" as a weapon to force your illegal demands.

Metroyet,

My policy has not changed regarding saftey. If I find something or the F/O finds something, or a F/A finds something it goes in the book, either the fdml or the cml. If the aircraft is safe to fly with the mel I'll fly it as long as I agree with the mel and there are not several other mels. I suppose someone will get in trouble but I document everything that goes on whether we are 3 min. late pushing or we have an mel. I have refused a number of aircraft in the past and have been told by various non-pilot personnel that "they I will call the CP and you will be in trouble". Not once have I had a call from the CP regarding refusal of an aircraft so if all of a sudden they fire me or give me time off for what I have been doing since I've been a captain (1985) I would say they would have a damn poor case. This has nothing to do with Mike Cleary as far as I'm concerned.


Regards,


Bob


Always on board with safety