US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

This airline has safety issues. Was told of a MAJOR one recently. This is not the place to out or discuss it. Keep up your baseless juvenile posts.

Utter Horsesh*t. Just more pathetic lies and attempted attention diversions. Nothing to see here. Talk about baseless posts. US Airways is regarded by the FAA as "1st in Safety". I guess you missed that one. Too busy donning your "On Board" lanyard?

There isn't a single person of any importance in this Country that doesn't see that press release, and other related noisy behaviors for exactly what they are. Terroristic threats against the company to give in to USCABAs demands. It's all your fake union has to offer...threats. Illegal, dangerous threats. Why? Wouldn't you think that the most "senior airline in America" could garner just a smidgen of legitimate respect?

Answer: No. No they can't.

Nobody...and I mean NOBODY cares what USCABA wants or demands. Who's going to be the first few sacrificial lambs led to slaughter by this hare brained "On Board" program?

I promise you this. The hammer is going to come down hard, fast, and irreversibly upon anyone dumb enough to listen to Mike Cleary and uses "safety" as a weapon to force your illegal demands.

 

[Pi brat]

So USAPA, by this DOH fight, is delaying the west pilots getting their share of the 190 flying, the 757 flying, and the A332 flying. But you easties insist that you aren't stealing west jobs. Talk about dumb...

Jim

Yes, you are absolutely right, this fight is delaying the west pilots getting their share of EMB, 757 flying(even though there is less 757 flying now than before) and A332. It is also delaying west F/Os the opportunity of upgrading in east seats as they would with the Nic. It is keeping guys off the 767. It's just the way it is. The T/A allowed for this to happen, even if it didn't plan on the method. Had we had to get a joint contract first, we may not be here right now, but.........we didn't, we are, and until we get a joint contract all the rest is whining. Most east pilots don't see delaying/avoiding the disaster of the Nic as dumb, despite all the westies and you beating that drum.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well if this "FACT" is true then why all the complaining of stagnation by the West?

I can only assume that part of it is the post-merger shrinking resulting in furloughs and downgrades (starting to reverse itself) and that their attrition is almost entirely from retirements at the top of the list and thus has the same 5 year "recess" that the East has had.

The East meanwhile has the 160+ positions on the E190, all three of the ex-ATA 757's, all 7 of the A332's (worth 200+ jobs together) and higher attrition to medical leave. Take those away and the East would be stagnant too.

As Pi would say, only a dummie couldn't figure that out...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Utter Horsesh*t. Just more pathetic lies and attempted attention diversions. Nothing to see here. Talk about baseless posts. US Airways is regarded by the FAA as "1st in Safety". I guess you missed that one. Too busy donning your "On Board" lanyard?

There isn't a single person of any importance in this Country that doesn't see that press release, and other related noisy behaviors for exactly what they are. Terroristic threats against the company to give in to USCABAs demands. It's all your fake union has to offer...threats. Illegal, dangerous threats. Why? Wouldn't you think that the most "senior airline in America" could garner just a smidgen of legitimate respect?

Answer: No. No they can't.

Nobody...and I mean NOBODY cares what USCABA wants or demands. Who's going to be the first few sacrificial lambs led to slaughter by this hare brained "On Board" program?

I promise you this. The hammer is going to come down hard, fast, and irreversibly upon anyone dumb enough to listen to Mike Cleary and uses "safety" as a weapon to force your illegal demands.

If you are not a US pilot how would you know whether or not there are any safety issues at the airline. You are not in the cockpit.

 

[Pi brat]

Why I answer your questions, just to have you call the answers "smartass" because you don't like them is beyond me, but here goes.

I can absolutely say it doesn't happen to the extent the easties claim. USAPA can massage the date to show what they want - remember that it's liars, damn liars, and statisticians. The problem is that the USAPA charts and data just reinforce what most easties want to believe, so it's accepted as though it were carved on tablets and brought down from the mountain top.

The FACT is that the east has a lot more attrition from the right seat - attrition that moves no one into a captain seat. Couple that with what Nic determined during the arbitration hearings - the future for the east was not as good as it was for the west at that time and I absolutely believe that the Nic award is basically fair.

You and others love to point out how the last 5 years have proved Nic wrong, but it's you that are wrong. You're comparing post-merger events and claiming that they would have happened without the merger. Post-merger, everyone should expect to move up or down as a single group since there's no way to see with certainty what would have happened without the merger. You love to quote Parker on what would have happened to both sides without the merger, but you even twist that. You never quote him from after the merger when he said repeatedly that east would have liquidated without the merger while west would have some financial tough spots. Why is it that you never quote that? Because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion that the east was treated unfairly by Nic?

You claim to be so neutral - don't like everything about DOH. Yet you'll take it if USAPA can get it, just as you'd take a 75/76 CLT captain spot if another east pilot taking a 757 spot out west left that available for you. You "don't want anything the west has" but you'll take advantage of opportunities that DOH would provide in a heartbeat. Nos talks about hypocrits but your picture is beside the definition in Funk and Wagnalls

Jim

Jim, you are flat out wrong....again.

You say "I can absolutely say it doesn't happen to the extent the easties claim". Well, if it were you it was happening to would that make you feel better? Moving forward, the relative positions of the bottom of the east list drops and it is given to the west as gains. That is a fact and USAPA should have put the guy's chart that is beside EF on the Nic to demonstrate it. It gives more opportunities to the west going forward. You and most westies say it doesn't matter, and that your opinion, but many of them have told me to my face THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN, AND THAT IS NOT TRUE!

Attrition from the right seat does help you move into a captain seat. If you are a 1000 numbers out, do you get that upgrade faster if you have to wait for all 1000 ahead of you to upgrade, or does it help if 300 of them retire ahead of you. Any pilot leaving the seniority list ahead of you helps. Now, if the F/O that retires is junior, then no, it doesn't help. You ignore that little fact.

You are also wrong about me not quoting Parker when he said the east would liquidate. You really should attention if you are going to throw around claims. I've said that I thought US probably would shut down. What I've also said is that they didn't, the merger changed that fate, as well as whatever AWA's fate. What gets me is the great picture of AWA's future that is thrown around and is just a pipe dream. It's all there to see for those that want to. The merger changed both fates, so we in the same boat after May 19, 2005 and the "probably" shouldn't have mattered, because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN! I agree that we are on airline and going forward we should all share its successes and failures. I just disagree with how Nic split up the pie. I don't think Nic got it all wrong. In the award I agree with a lot of what he says, I just think he went too far towards the west based on a failing airline vs. a supposed thriving one. I think USAPA is going too far the other way. But just like you, nobody listens to me.

You tell me how I cannot take DOH is USAPA gets it. Will traderjake? Will 924PS not take his DOH and a bid in PHX? Oh wait, the fence would probably keep him from getting PHX before he retires, unlike the Nic.

 

[cleardirect]

This airline has safety issues. Was told of a MAJOR one recently. This is not the place to out or discuss it. Keep up your baseless juvenile posts.

Smelling the lav and calling it toxic fumes is not a "major" safety issue.

BTW checking in "on board" with ATC. Pretty childish or as you say juvenile!!!! So much for being professional pilots.

 

[cleardirect]

Jim, you are flat out wrong....again.

You say "I can absolutely say it doesn't happen to the extent the easties claim". Well, if it were you it was happening to would that make you feel better? Moving forward, the relative positions of the bottom of the east list drops and it is given to the west as gains. That is a fact and USAPA should have put the guy's chart that is beside EF on the Nic to demonstrate it. It gives more opportunities to the west going forward. You and most westies say it doesn't matter, and that your opinion, but many of them have told me to my face THAT IT DOES NOT HAPPEN, AND THAT IS NOT TRUE!

Attrition from the right seat does help you move into a captain seat. If you are a 1000 numbers out, do you get that upgrade faster if you have to wait for all 1000 ahead of you to upgrade, or does it help if 300 of them retire ahead of you. Any pilot leaving the seniority list ahead of you helps. Now, if the F/O that retires is junior, then no, it doesn't help. You ignore that little fact.

You are also wrong about me not quoting Parker when he said the east would liquidate. You really should attention if you are going to throw around claims. I've said that I thought US probably would shut down. What I've also said is that they didn't, the merger changed that fate, as well as whatever AWA's fate. What gets me is the great picture of AWA's future that is thrown around and is just a pipe dream. It's all there to see for those that want to. The merger changed both fates, so we in the same boat after May 19, 2005 and the "probably" shouldn't have mattered, because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

You tell me how I cannot take DOH is USAPA gets it. Will traderjake? Will 924PS not take his DOH and a bid in PHX? Oh wait, the fence would probably keep him from getting PHX before he retires, unlike the Nic.

So there it is. We have someone that is not effected by this dispute. A man that can look at the facts and separate emotion and selfish interest from the truth and comes to a conclusion.

But you are effected by a neutral third party list. So here you are screaming it is not fair. TO YOU! In your opinion.

But every person that is not effected by the Nicolau list has agreed that it is fair and the only people that disagree are east pilots.

 

[prechilill]

This airline has safety issues. Was told of a MAJOR one recently. This is not the place to out or discuss it. Keep up your baseless juvenile posts.

Agreed, the east pilots have always had safety problems...
Looking west, different story.

 

[No Land Green]

Agreed, the east pilots have always had safety problems...
Looking west, different story.

That's funny, it's your Management that is part of the problem here. At the end of the day, we have safety issues at this airline, to think otherwise is your choice. Like I stated earlier, this is not the place to air out the Company's dirty laundry.

 

[No Land Green]

Utter Horsesh*t. Just more pathetic lies and attempted attention diversions. Nothing to see here. Talk about baseless posts. US Airways is regarded by the FAA as "1st in Safety". I guess you missed that one. Too busy donning your "On Board" lanyard?

There isn't a single person of any importance in this Country that doesn't see that press release, and other related noisy behaviors for exactly what they are. Terroristic threats against the company to give in to USCABAs demands. It's all your fake union has to offer...threats. Illegal, dangerous threats. Why? Wouldn't you think that the most "senior airline in America" could garner just a smidgen of legitimate respect?

Answer: No. No they can't.

Nobody...and I mean NOBODY cares what USCABA wants or demands. Who's going to be the first few sacrificial lambs led to slaughter by this hare brained "On Board" program?

I promise you this. The hammer is going to come down hard, fast, and irreversibly upon anyone dumb enough to listen to Mike Cleary and uses "safety" as a weapon to force your illegal demands.

Thanks for another childish response.

 

[A320 Driver]

The East meanwhile has the 160+ positions on the E190, all three of the ex-ATA 757's, all 7 of the A332's (worth 200+ jobs together) and higher attrition to medical leave. Take those away and the East would be stagnant too.


Jim
[/quote]

Hmmm... not too shabby for an outfit that NIC said had no future. The planes go where there is money to be made.

Driver B)

 

[No Land Green]

Smelling the lav and calling it toxic fumes is not a "major" safety issue.

BTW checking in "on board" with ATC. Pretty childish or as you say juvenile!!!! So much for being professional pilots.

The "toxic fume" issue is serious. Ask the crew members that have been exposed to it.

If "checking in "on board" with ATC" helps raise the awareness level of safety, then it is a good thing, especially those of you who seem to be so preoccupied with LOA 93, the Nic.

Safety is not a "job action" as you seem to think.

 

[No Land Green]

[/quote]

Hmmm... not too shabby for an outfit that NIC said had no future. The planes go where there is money to be made.

Driver B)
[/quote]


That was the side that was supposedly "liquidating".......LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[luvn737s]

Yes, you are absolutely right, this fight is delaying the west pilots getting their share of EMB, 757 flying(even though there is less 757 flying now than before) and A332. It is also delaying west F/Os the opportunity of upgrading in east seats as they would with the Nic. It is keeping guys off the 767. It's just the way it is. The T/A allowed for this to happen, even if it didn't plan on the method. Had we had to get a joint contract first, we may not be here right now, but.........we didn't, we are, and until we get a joint contract all the rest is whining. Most east pilots don't see delaying/avoiding the disaster of the Nic as dumb, despite all the westies and you beating that drum.

So why ask westies to pay for intentional impotence? Cleary could offer the west a dues holiday by signing a sideletter setting aside Agency Shop provisions until a joint contract is signed. In fact set it aside for both sides and we'd see just exactly how much support USAPA has with or without a vote.

I mean, fairness is what USAPA is all about, isn't it? If they don't want to provide a service, they shouldn't charge for it.

 

[luvn737s]

The "toxic fume" issue is serious. Ask the crew members that have been exposed to it.

If "checking in "on board" with ATC" helps raise the awareness level of safety, then it is a good thing, especially those of you who seem to be so preoccupied with LOA 93, the Nic.

Safety is not a "job action" as you seem to think.

Aviator/Thespian what a combo! How can you expect to get the truth from the drama queens always on the stage with their tales of intrigue and whodunnits? I'll bet these old easties will be great storytellers when they retire, holding court in the McDonalds breakroom.

I can imagine the 19 year-old night manager saying, "Hey Captain, I don't know who this Alphonse guy is you keep ranting about, but get a mop in the drive-through. Are you ON BOARD with that? And take off that stupid lanyard!"