US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Your Captain's ego is showing - I'm sure that those 160+ people that are on the payroll becasue of the 190's don't consider the presence of the E190's "a little"...

Your biggest problem is a refusal to separate pre-merger from post-merger. Thus you see absolutely nothing wrong with the East getting every airplane arrival not needed to keep the west at min-fleet despite the clear TA language that USAPA fails to enforce.

Jim

I'm sure 9 out of 10 of the EMB pilots would like to be on an airplane that pays more. When I was flying it a lot of the F/Os would have rather been furloughed or take a leave, but the company wouldn't let them.

You really should look in the mirror before you tell anyone about problems. We have every airplane needed to keep the east above the min fleet! That is except the EMBs, and that was handled by either an arbitrator or agreement, I can't remember, but it was worked out with the west getting an IOU. I think they should have gotten some, and probably some of the new 330s(as I've said before, but when has that ever stopped you from running your mouth?), but the company put them where they wanted and to keep the fleets on both sides near the min. Why is it that you worry so much about the west being at the min fleet and not the east? Do you acknowledge that the east has less hulls than 2005?

 

[Pi brat]

I'm doing more to get a contract than the majority of East pilots.

What would happen if every East pilot SAPed down to the monthly minimum and did not answer any POTA calls?

The company would start cancelling trips and we'd have a contract a short time later.

I've been doing that for 3 years and it's perfectly legal.

It'll never happen because the majority of East pilots won't put the money where their mouth is.

So how's that working out for ya? How much better is your plan working than USAPA's?

I understand you frustration and I agree with some of it, but when someone abdicates their right to change things I don't have much sympathy for their whine.

 

[Pi brat]

Lots of opinion, which your entitled to have but I don't see a single fact - except in your mind oh All Knowing One...

Jim

I can't tell what you are talking about from your quote.

I have posted many facts on hear, but most refuse to listen and accept them if they don't fit their ideas about what happened.

You calling me that, WOW!

 

[crazystnic]

Maybe if you hadn't given a West pilot the answer from the East contract your answer wouldn't have been wrong in the first place. Apparently you momentarily forgot about the separate ops, separate contracts.

Of course, you even got the answer wrong for the East contract...
"you must complete the distance learning at least (3) three days prior to the origination of that trip so that your training records are updated accordingly."

Jim

a
***************

I just copied the CBS message.. you are such an ####

 

[CactusPilot1]

In order to maintain your qualification to fly, this module must be completed by May 31, 2011. to operate a trip operating on June 01, 2011, you must complete the distance learning at least (3) three days prior to the origination of that trip so that your training records are updated accordingly. Reserves are reminded that this includes scheduled AVL days.so I would say if you don't have a trip on JUNE 01, you can finish on May 31. per CBS

Why are so many waiting til the last minute? I say, git-r-done.

Do we have a case of mass procrastination?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Do you acknowledge that the east has less hulls than 2005?

I acknowledge that both sides have less hulls than 2005 - your point? Show me anywhere in the TA where the number of hulls in 2005, or the difference in the number of hulls since then, has any impact on the split of future (to 2005) deliveries. After all, you continually excuse the East getting most of the new hulls "because we lost more planes". You're making up arguments to justify the East's desire to have all the marbles. Even that dumb "Nic pimping out the West to take East jobs" nonsense.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

I just copied the CBS message.. you are such an ####

As someone who thinks they're so smart recently remarked to a Westie, remember separate ops, separate contracts. Why in the world did you have the gall to think that just because your CBS message said X, the West CBS messages had to say X too? Was it that "We Easties know everything - if you don't believe it just ask us." popping out again?

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

I acknowledge that both sides have less hulls than 2005 - your point? Show me anywhere in the TA where the number of hulls in 2005, or the difference in the number of hulls since then, has any impact on the split of future (to 2005) deliveries. After all, you continually excuse the East getting most of the new hulls "because we lost more planes". You're making up arguments to justify the East's desire to have all the marbles. Even that dumb "Nic pimping out the West to take East jobs" nonsense.

Jim

Talk about dumb. Jim, who put those airplanes where they are? USAPA? No, the company put them where they would make the most money first(I hope) then where they had to for the min fleet. Who cares if you like where they are going, if we are both right at the min fleet they will have to go to the side that needs them. The west is going to retire it's 737s this year, so I expect most of the new Airbus will go west. When we parked all those 757s we had to have replacements. Take the blinders off!

As for a Nic pimping out, going forward Nic shifted job opportunities from east to west. That is a fact. You can say it's fair, but you cannot say it doesn't happen.

I know you are not stupid, it's just that you old biases and grudges are like cataracts.

 

[Pi brat]

Why are so many waiting til the last minute? I say, git-r-done.

Do we have a case of mass procrastination?

Some think it"shows the company we are mad". What is "shows" is that we are mad, we will wait until the last minute, then do it anyway and it won't really matter. Just makes work for a few secretaries, I'm sure nobody from the CP up really care. They don't care if we are unhappy!

 

[CactusPilot1]

Some think it"shows the company we are mad". What is "shows" is that we are mad, we will wait until the last minute, then do it anyway and it won't really matter. Just makes work for a few secretaries, I'm sure nobody from the CP up really care. They don't care if we are unhappy!

My thoughts exactly. The plan is out there in the open. You are right, the executives don't care but it does stress out people who are just trying to do their jobs.

I say let em think they are gettng somewhere on the treadmill.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As for a Nic pimping out, going forward Nic shifted job opportunities from east to west. That is a fact. You can say it's fair, but you cannot say it doesn't happen.

Why I answer your questions, just to have you call the answers "smartass" because you don't like them is beyond me, but here goes.

I can absolutely say it doesn't happen to the extent the easties claim. USAPA can massage the date to show what they want - remember that it's liars, damn liars, and statisticians. The problem is that the USAPA charts and data just reinforce what most easties want to believe, so it's accepted as though it were carved on tablets and brought down from the mountain top.

The FACT is that the east has a lot more attrition from the right seat - attrition that moves no one into a captain seat. Couple that with what Nic determined during the arbitration hearings - the future for the east was not as good as it was for the west at that time and I absolutely believe that the Nic award is basically fair.

You and others love to point out how the last 5 years have proved Nic wrong, but it's you that are wrong. You're comparing post-merger events and claiming that they would have happened without the merger. Post-merger, everyone should expect to move up or down as a single group since there's no way to see with certainty what would have happened without the merger. You love to quote Parker on what would have happened to both sides without the merger, but you even twist that. You never quote him from after the merger when he said repeatedly that east would have liquidated without the merger while west would have some financial tough spots. Why is it that you never quote that? Because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion that the east was treated unfairly by Nic?

You claim to be so neutral - don't like everything about DOH. Yet you'll take it if USAPA can get it, just as you'd take a 75/76 CLT captain spot if another east pilot taking a 757 spot out west left that available for you. You "don't want anything the west has" but you'll take advantage of opportunities that DOH would provide in a heartbeat. Nos talks about hypocrits but your picture is beside the definition in Funk and Wagnalls

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Talk about dumb. Jim, who put those airplanes where they are? USAPA?

Dumb is as dumb does...

Who pays people to fly those airplanes? USAPA? Of course not, the company does, but that doesn't mean that the company can pay whatever they desire does it? There's a little thing called a contract that USAPA is supposed to enforce, isn't there? Part of that contract is the TA, isn't it? You'll note that I've never talked about where the airplanes fly, only who flies them. Of course, you won't accept that, insisting that I'm dumb by putting words in my mouth.

As I understand it, the 190 flying split was determined by arbitration with an IOU due upon integration. I also understand that the 3 757's were split by agreement of the 2 MEC's - I really don't know what that settlement was since it occured after I'd retired. That leaves the A332's - USAPA is ignoring it's DFR duty to determine a "fair" split of that flying - who flys how much, NOT WHERE THEY FLY. The TA makes plenty of room for westies to do the flying for their share.

So USAPA, by this DOH fight, is delaying the west pilots getting their share of the 190 flying, the 757 flying, and the A332 flying. But you easties insist that you aren't stealing west jobs. Talk about dumb...

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

I see all the major news outlets were ALL OVER USCABA's pointless, melodramatic press release yesterday.

Even the media understands how pathetically irrelevant USCABA is. They shout from the roof tops that their pilots are going to end up killing anybody that steps on their planes, (unless their demands are met) and YET STILL NOBODY GIVES A DAMN!!!

Is there one single solitary ADULT over there? Guess not.

 

[No Land Green]

I see all the major news outlets were ALL OVER USCABA's pointless, melodramatic press release yesterday.

Even the media understands how pathetically irrelevant USCABA is. They shout from the roof tops that their pilots are going to end up killing anybody that steps on their planes, (unless their demands are met) and YET STILL NOBODY GIVES A DAMN!!!

Is there one single solitary ADULT over there? Guess not.

This airline has safety issues. Was told of a MAJOR one recently. This is not the place to out or discuss it. Keep up your baseless juvenile posts.

 

[No Land Green]

The FACT is that the east has a lot more attrition from the right seat - attrition that moves no one into a captain seat.



Jim

Well if this "FACT" is true then why all the complaining of stagnation by the West?