US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Phoenix Domicile Update

Are PHX Based Pilots really a part of USAPA, OR Just a Revenue Source for the union?
You may have recently seen USAPA's May 3rd BPR Conference Call Update. Have you heard that yet another PHX based pilot has been removed from yet another committee? Former AWA First Officer Mark Burman, an extremely well-qualified, hardworking and dedicated volunteer was removed from the Security Committee this past week. Mark has worked closely with the Security Committee Chairman, Captain Steve Sevier, for well over a year and has done a very fine job. So much so, that at the last BPR meeting Mark, Steve and the PHX Reps had the pleasure of dining together in order to discuss various issues. Suffice it to say that any PHX representative having dinner with any committee chairman is an extremely rare, (as in perhaps, never), and it appeared as if everything was perfectly fine between Steve and Mark on that Monday night.
Mark was scheduled to give the BPR and Officers a presentation on the timely topic of Identity Theft on Tuesday. Mark is especially well-qualified in this area, as he serves as an active Police Officer and has attended classes presented by the PHX Police Department on this subject. ID theft is a topic of interest to all of us especially when ACCUSATIONS of ID theft are being made so publicly by USAPA against several of its members. Mark and Steve worked closely together to develop the presentation, informed the officers, and were put on the agenda for the regular April BPR meeting. USAPA President Mike Cleary was well aware of the subject matter to be briefed by the Security Committee, and who would be involved making the presentation for at least a week prior to the meeting.
Mark traveled all the way from PHX to CLT on Monday in order to give the presentation on Tuesday. Mark patiently sat through the meeting for most of the day on Tuesday, when finally (late in the afternoon) it was time for the Security Committee's hour-long presentation on how best to protect yourself from identity theft. Given the accusation made by USAPA against certain West pilots (and the associated fear-mongering), this was information that we could all put to good use. The extremely important information Mark was to present is also used by the PHX Police Department in their own training. However, in what we can only describe as overly-dramatic, purely-political showmanship, President Mike Cleary stopped the show with a “revelation” and asked Mark if he was an “agent of Leonidas” after Mark's five-minute introduction and about two slides into the presentation. The timing of Mike's “revelation” was rather amazing in light of the fact that, during the Addington trial, Cleary sat in the same courtroom with Mark, saw him testify, and was well aware of Mark’s involvement in the DFR litigation. Since Mark Burman was one of the Addington plaintiffs, Mike Cleary should not have had this late “revelation” that Mark was involved with Leonidas as there should have been no surprise had Mike been paying any attention at all. Mike Cleary was “shocked and outraged” that someone who “stole our information” was now going to give the BPR a presentation on how to protect their Identity.
We ask the question, “why did President Mike Cleary wait until Mark had traveled all the way to CLT and was standing before the BPR to then come to the 'revelation' about who it was that was going to give the BPR and Officers an Identity Theft presentation?” The excuse Mike Cleary gave was that he “only found out an hour prior to the Security Committees presentation.” In the PHX reps view, this is an extremely weak excuse, as this sort of ambush from Mike has been demonstrated time and again and was no surprise to us when it happened. Plus, if Mike Cleary did know for an hour prior why did he allow presentation to even begin.
This is when the attempted “lynching” began, and while the BPR indicated that it wanted to hear the information, it was the presenter with which they had a problem. The BPR then asked the Security Chairman, Steve Sevier, to give the same presentation using the same slides, however, Steve expressed that he had not taken the class Mark had, felt he was not qualified, and said he was not comfortable “taking over” to give the presentation by himself. It was at this point that Captain Sevier made many flattering comments about First Officer Burman as it pertained to his performance on the Security Committee, and stood his ground in defending someone who he clearly believed to be an asset to the union.
In our opinion, it was an act of complete cowardice and political maneuvering by Mike Cleary which then caused the other reps to vote not to hear the prepared presentation from as long as it was going to be given by Addington Plaintiff, Mark Burman. This begs the question as to whether the BPR is really more concerned about sincerely protecting its members, or scoring some personal “political points?” The following day without Mark’s involvement, Steve attempted to present a small portion of the information.
Only three days after Captain Sevier really “went to bat” for Mark by fully defending his performance on the committee in front of the BPR, he demanded Mark’s resignation from the Security Committee in a puzzling reversal of his stated opinion of Mark. This, Mark declined to provide. Steve then went to President Mike Cleary in order to have Mark removed from the Security committee. The political pressure to not allow committee members their freedom of speech during their own time has deeply infiltrated this union. Pretty sad, if not blatantly illegal.
The USAPA constitution says that the President appoints and removes committee members with approval of the BPR. The discussion during this week’s BPR telephonic meeting to remove Mark from the Security Committee lasted about 10 minutes. David asked the President if anything had been proven or was there any evidence that Mark had “stolen” anything, or even done anything wrong at all. The only answer he received was that Mark “was an agent of Leonidas, therefore that was good enough.” Guilt by association (of those who have asserted a valid legal claim against the union) is all it takes around Mike. We hope that no other USAPA volunteer, Rep or Officer is accused of anything wrong (except an assault), otherwise, using this standard we will all be subject to USAPA's regular practice of considering the accused guilty until proven innocent. It seems that Cleary and the remainder of the BPR actually believe this is the American Way! Gentlemen, our justice system actual presumes the opposite- innocent until proven guilty. We should consider adopting that worthy principle as a union as well.
To be accurate, not every East BPR member voted not to hear Mark Burman give the Security presentation last month, but all but one East Board member, Dave Ciabattoni (acting as DDR for Eric Jordan) did vote to remove Mark from the Security Committee this week in accordance with the President's recommendation.
As you know, this is not nearly the first removal of a West committee member. You may remember that it was an 8-to-3 vote which removed the very qualified and dedicated George Maliga from the (supposedly) “non-political” HIMMS committee. Dave Simmons was removed from the P4P committee because of the recommendation of Scott Theurer, the committee chair. Dave was (and remains) the ONLY west pilot to have served in any capacity whatsoever within any part (or sub-part) of USAPA's largest Committee- Communications. In fact, even the media contact for PHX is a DCA based pilot! How's that for having your point-of-view heard?
We were unable to garnish just one more PHX pilot to the Negotiating committee last summer (our third attempt to address this issue) in order to give the NAC equal representation with two West pilots. That resolution was also defeated by [take a wild guess] 8 to 3! Not a single other member of the BPR believed that an additional PHX pilot could assist in negotiating a joint contract. Clearly they, and Mike Clearly, believed the NAC's progress was acceptable at that time.
Pat O’Neill submitted his resume and interviewed with the Scope Committee Chairman (and CLT Vice-Chairman), Dewitt Ingram several months ago, but as to date has not heard a word. That is probably a long-shot now, in light of the fact that President Cleary had the CLT Airport Police remove Pat (along with PHX Vice-Chairman Velez) from a BPR meeting back in March while serving as the DDR for Eric Ferguson.
Johan de Vicq has repeatedly volunteered to work on the ERP (Efficiency Recover Program), a West contract provision that has gone largely ignored since USAPA took over. He has not heard a word either.
A quick check of the USAPA yellow pages lists 248 committee positions. Of those positions, PHX based pilots hold only 18. Of those 18 positions, David Weeks is listed for three different committees, Dennis Glauner on two different committees, Hershel Beard on two different committees, and Aaron Wallace two committees. The committees (and the number of West pilots involved) are:

Dues Collection
1
Grievance
1
Hotel
1
HIMMS
1
Pro Standards
1
Training
1
Safety
1
Bereavement
1
Scheduling
1
Base Scheduling
3
PBS
2
UPEAF Trustee
2
CIRP
2

Only 18 out of 248 USAPA Committee positions! Really, how much input do West pilots have in the direction of this union? It appears that PHX based pilots are treated simply as an unwilling revenue source, under threat of termination. Most of those who do wish to participate are not allowed to serve, and even then are NEVER treated as equals or as valued members with experience or ideas which might help to lead this union into the future.
We can only conclude that west pilots are to shut up and remain in the back of the bus, (even as the bus is stuck in a ditch). If a PHX based pilot does manage to break through the iron curtain, experience has shown that they will eventually be removed. History has irrefutably proven this. So just keep sitting quietly in the back of the bus like the second class-citizens we are considered. An elite and exclusive team of East pilots (only), chosen by Cleary have everything under complete control and are making splendid progress on all fronts. Just ask them- they will tell you all about it (so long as they do not think you are based in PHX).
By the way, has anyone based in Phoenix received one of the new “XXXX” yellow lanyards we see so many East Coast pilots wearing lately? Your representatives haven't been given any to distribute and do not know what special credentials are required to wear one. We were privy to an email exchange from a West pilot who inquired about getting one, but was told by Communications Chairman Theuer that, “The lanyards are not however just a 'party gift' handed to everyone; they are handed to those, from any domicile, who have first demonstrated that they are on board with the idea that safety comes before everything else.” Regrettably, we have been given zero guidance on what it takes to “first demonstrate” your commitment to safety above all else. We know that your impeccable safety record says this, but that is apparently not enough, and we remain in the dark as usual. If you find out what it takes to “earn” one of these, please let us know.

Sincerely,

David Braid
Eric Ferguson
Roger Velez
 
uSaPa sucks.....

There is no excuse or justification for what happened in the BPR meeting. This "drama" is not new however and has gone on for years. AWA and U MECs both had there share of it and it doesn't look like we've learned anything.



Driver <_<
 
Tell everyone who you work for and how you got your seniority.

Give my regards to the girls please.

My seniority was determined by the exisiting ALPA merger policy at the time of the US/PSA/PI merger 1988/1989.

The Nicolau Award was a result of ALPA merger policy and mutually agreed to Binding Arbitratiion. Need I say more?
 
No. For the F'ing quadrillionth time. I am not a US Air pilot never was amw either. What am I doing to help move you all in the right direction? I relentlessly expose what a pointless group of narcissistic failed liars your union is run by. Read the latest phx update. Do you really think a labor union has any chance of succes being run like this? Do you REALLY think treating 40% of the over all pilot group in this consistant manner is an actual recipe for a new contract? I'd be curious to know exactly how many labor laws usapa violates weekly.

Take the blinders off. Read it with a neutral 3rd party point of view. Only then will it become apparent to you. Just how far down the abyss usapa had dug ALL of you. get over the fact I'm not an lcc pilot. That's irrelevant. Facts are facts and the mike cleary brand of labor union is rotten and dysfunctional to the last single atom of it's core...and that fact will NEVER change.

Usapa got 53% of the vote the first time....over 3 wasted years ago. Do you think more or less lcc pilots would vote to keep usapa at this point?

I do not believe your statements about being a US pilot. I believe you are or someone close to you is, or you work for ALPA. There has to be a reason that you keep so close to the situation and have such anger about it. So, just tell the truth, are you a US pilot or is anyone you are close to a US pilot? Make the clear, true statement and I will not bring it up again.

Do I think more or less LCC pilots will vote for USAPA this time? More. Because I believe 80-90% of the west pilots will vote for them because the current leadership is making every mistake possible to help them win DFR II. The west pilots feign indignation about the treatment of west pilots when the fact is that they smile at every act against them and put the facts in the DFR II file. The west pilots said from day one that they would have nothing to do with USAPA and would fight to bring it's end. They only stated to join, and pay, in numbers after the Suzi loss. The switched gears and came up with a new strategy, and some within USAPA have played right into it. Pretty smart on the west pilots part.

I don't have any blinders on. I've read everything that I can get my hands on. What you, and most of your west poster friends, come up with is that when I support anything east, or counter what I see as flawed west logic, that I am a USAPA shill. I'm not. I am a member in good standing because when they lawfully won the election I decided that I could not in good conscience sit on the sidelines. I had to have a voice, and I have used it, much to some USAPA leaders dismay. They don't get me either.

My bottom line on all of this is that with the road(s) this pilot group took, we just have to let things play out in the courts. That means no new contract and no Nic or DOH list until that is done. I just don't see anyway around that and all the "on boards" and "armies" in the world won't change it. Each side made it's bed, now we lie in them and itch.
 
My seniority was determined by the exisiting ALPA merger policy at the time of the US/PSA/PI merger 1988/1989.

The Nicolau Award was a result of ALPA merger policy and mutually agreed to Binding Arbitratiion. Need I say more?


the above reminds me of "I got mine......" LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
 
When this merger happened, both MEC's agreed that furloughed pilots were to be junior to all active pilots. End of discussion from those two parties.


Is the above statement anywhere in writing? Can you cite the source please? We all know that was the stance of the West before the first discussion ever took place regarding seniority integration. The West DID do it's homework as to the East Demographics and weak worded ALPA Merger Policy, hence the West ALPA chant, "KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE PRIZE"........LMAO!!!!!!!

I have to give the West credit here, "theft", "greed", "integrity"......hmmmmmmmm
 
No. For the F'ing quadrillionth time. I am not a US Air pilot never was amw either. What am I doing to help move you all in the right direction? I relentlessly BLAH, BLAH, BLAH....


The true test of integrity...

When one can admit they are a zealot about a dispute (and take a side) while at the same time they are affirming they never had membership in either group. (I guess part of being a zealous moron is having the integrity to make sure everyone knows it. :lol: )

Are we to believe that you (not being a pilot on either side) are a neutral third party that can help us all see the light? Are we to believe that your only desire is for integrity to prevail? You have no motive or personal interest except for integrity?

Integrity would require you to reveal if you, your spouse, or a family member, have ever worked for one of the parties in dispute, especially since your emphatic denial of being a pilot on either side is presented as your qualification for being impartial.

Me thinks you are over much zealous about integrity for integrity's sake.

Carry on.
 
Sorry. You made the mess...you can clean it up all by yourselves. Look at the bright side, perhaps your new found cleaning skills can help supplement your retirement income after you retire on loa 93.

Real answer...USCABA and ALL of it's primary players need to be thrown in the trash and a real union...with national over site needs to come in and provide some adult supervision over the east.

USAPA is an abject failure and there is no "fixing" it. Scrape it. Burn it and start over. Until then, you can enjoy loa 93 and the 35,000 word CLT updates that sound like the paranoid manifesto of mad men.
so, alpo is the answer? Give me a break. That POS organization only knows how to maintain the national organization by bribing its member leaders with national jobs.
The membership takes it on the chin for the greater good.
That solution is like curing cancer by shooting yerself in the head.
Y'all can do better than that!
Give me solutions, boys. SOLUTIONS. The path to wealth and happiness and harmony.
What is it?
So far I just see alpo wannabe's and complainers, but no real thinkers.
 
The true test of integrity...

When one can admit they are a zealot about a dispute (and take a side) while at the same time they are affirming they never had membership in either group. (I guess part of being a zealous moron is having the integrity to make sure everyone knows it. :lol: )

Are we to believe that you (not being a pilot on either side) are a neutral third party that can help us all see the light? Are we to believe that your only desire is for integrity to prevail? You have no motive or personal interest except for integrity?

Integrity would require you to reveal if you, your spouse, or a family member, have ever worked for one of the parties in dispute, especially since your emphatic denial of being a pilot on either side is presented as your qualification for being impartial.

Me thinks you are over much zealous about integrity for integrity's sake.

Carry on.
How "East" of you to be more concerned with the messanger than with the message.
 
I do not believe your statements about being a US pilot. I believe you are or someone close to you is, or you work for ALPA. There has to be a reason that you keep so close to the situation and have such anger about it. So, just tell the truth, are you a US pilot or is anyone you are close to a US pilot? Make the clear, true statement and I will not bring it up again.

Typical east attitude and belief system. "Tell us what we want to hear and we will believe you and never bring it up again. But if you tell us what we don't want to hear we will badger you until you do."

He's already answered you. You don't believe him. Oh well. :rolleyes:
 
Jetz is an airline pilots association paid message board propagandist, as is bongboy. The money that was shown paid to aaa-awa was in part paid to them to monitor this message board.

You are having narcissistic delusions again.


blah, blah, blah, etc.

Please provide a defense of my posting above, of the history of america west airlines management and its pilots. I will provide links to each one happily.
So many words and nothing to actually say.

You conveniently ignored the points I made where you were WRONG. Why is that?

Tell you what. First you provide a defense for the history of USAir and USAirways fatalities and I will provide the links. Also provide a defense for your convicted pedophile coworker. Then address all the items I listed first where you were WRONG. Then provide evidence for your other lies to include identity theft and the conspiracy theory of BoeingBoy and 767jetz being paid by ALPA to monitor this site.

AFTER you've done that, then MAYBE people will consider responding to you. Until then you are an insignificant distraction full of hot air, junior.
 
My seniority was determined by the exisiting ALPA merger policy at the time of the US/PSA/PI merger 1988/1989.

The Nicolau Award was a result of ALPA merger policy and mutually agreed to Binding Arbitratiion. Need I say more?
It is unreasonable to expect any one or any group to allow itself to be bound to an outcome for which it does not agree. Contracts 101. Need I say more?
 
so, alpo is the answer? Give me a break. That POS organization only knows how to maintain the national organization by bribing its member leaders with national jobs.
The membership takes it on the chin for the greater good.
That solution is like curing cancer by shooting yerself in the head.
Y'all can do better than that!
Give me solutions, boys. SOLUTIONS. The path to wealth and happiness and harmony.
What is it?
So far I just see alpo wannabe's and complainers, but no real thinkers.


The 9th, affirmed by the SCOTUS, made the path clear. It would be premature for the courts to intervene in the bargaining process between the union and the company prior to the bargaining completion.

The company and the union must bargain. The only way forward is a ratification vote. The West knows it. That is why the West is spending so much money, time, and effort to subvert their opponents.

SOLUTION?... How do you define "solution"? Each of us are living the solution. We all individually are using every single thing available to us within the law until we are satisfied there is nothing more we can, or wish, to do.

Metroyet's contentment doesn't factor into my solution. :lol:
 
You quote yourself?
He certainly does. Sumadarson is so delusional and has such a distorted sense of self importance that he thinks his words must be posted and re-posted to feel better about himself. It bothers him that the people he sees as most important, the same ones he incessantly attacks, choose to ignore him. As funny as it is, he actually believes that the banter on this forum is important enough to the outside world that ALPA pays pilots to monitor what he has to say. :lol:

Words just can't adequately describe the extent of his psychosis.
 
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