US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

Do not worry Suma, I am finishing a 4-day trip and I should have something for you mid-week. The producer put me in contact with the reporter on Monday.

The "claiim" of physical violence is documented and being handled in Phoenix. Feds don't usually disclose exactly how they are conducting theiir investigation. You are just going to have to sit there and stew about their next move.

Thanks but I don't need any of your "reminders."

Go ahead Cactus, Media away.We would love for you to get this out front and center in Phoenix, headquarters. Just make sure you consult the company ethics and policy with regard to talking to the media. (I might warn you the company is not going to be thrilled about you calling reporters and highlighting the fact they had been told of this data leak months ago and did nothing.) But media away! (This was covered in your distance learning module just this year.) Have fun!

 

[CactusPilot1]

Go ahead Cactus, Media away. Just make sure you consult the company ethics and policy with regard to talking to the media. This was covered in your distance learning module just this year. Have fun!

Free country, free speech. You people are trying to silence all of your opposition. Do you think your feeble attempt to silence Leonidas and keep your association from facing DFRII, you are mistaken. Do you think the target of the investigative reporter is the company?

The name of the LLC makes no difference. Funding will continue.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Between Calloway and Boeing Boy, this group has the most cavalier attitude about personal information.

Not cavalier, just waiting on someone to cite the law violated, backed up with facts regarding what info was actually released. So far no one has been able to do that but it hasn't stopped the wild speculation. Seems like the same speculation had people spending time in jail when the RICO case was announced. We all know how that turned out.

So I see this as just another episode of the East crowd saying facts be damned, let's hang someone.

Jim

 

[Black Swan]

Free country, free speech. You people are trying to silence all of your opposition. Do you think your feeble attempt to silence Leonidas and keep your association from facing DFRII, you are mistaken. Do you think the target of the investigative reporter is the company?

The name of the LLC makes no difference. Funding will continue.

Another one bites the dust.........

 

[Black Swan]

Not cavalier, just waiting on someone to cite the law violated, backed up with facts regarding what info was actually released. So far no one has been able to do that but it hasn't stopped the wild speculation. Seems like the same speculation had people spending time in jail when the RICO case was announced.

So I see this as just another episode of the East crowd saying facts be damned, let's hang someone.

Jim

Perhaps the suspension of 3 is just the start? How do you suspend an employee if they have no cause?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Perhaps the suspension of 3 is just the start? How do you suspend an employee if they have no cause?

There can be grounds for suspending employees that don't rise to the level of breaking any law. Do I really need to explain the difference between company policy and criminal law to you? Or maybe I do since you haven't cited any law broken yet.

Jim

 

[flybynite]

I read the mailing that was sent out and to be honest, I really don't see any reason for it. Sort of a waste of money IMO. Pretty, though.

Now it's come to my attention that the info that was obtained to send these things out "may" have been gleaned from our CATS system. Now, if that's true, I'm going to get my panties in a bunch. Because that's where my info is too. Payroll and PIN numbers for a start.

Any truth to this, fellas?

 

[LSS]

There can be grounds for suspending employees that don't rise to the level of breaking any law. Do I really need to explain the difference between company policy and criminal law to you? Or maybe I do since you haven't cited any law broken yet.

Jim

Jim,
Steve Johnson's letter to the east pilots states that SS #s were in the file that was obtained by Leonidas and has admitted that an "employee" of LCC provided it to them. Why doesn't everyone who thinks this is not a serious matter, post their full name, home address and social security number here, since it is so 'TRIVIAL"... Aqua, fodase and Jim... why don't you all lead it off?

Let me guess the outcome of that suggestion.... NO ONE WILL... The westy posters here (as well as their few supporters) are (pick your choice) either very thick in the head or extraordinarily naive or outright delusional about the seriousness of this matter!

 

[CactusPilot1]

Another one bites the dust.........

That is the future of your anti-union......

 

[aquagreen73s]

Why doesn't everyone who thinks this is not a serious matter, post their full name, home address and social security number here, since it is so 'TRIVIAL"... Aqua, fodase and Jim... why don't you all lead it off?

Because that would be misuse, none of which has happened. You see, the problem here is for the company, not Leonidas or the West. The company is the one charged with maintaining SSN data, and it doesn't look good when they fold that data into a generic looking seniority list. Even encrypting and truncating it still not a good thing because privacy data has no business being included in what is supposed to be a generic seniority list. Since Cleary has thrown a hand grenade into Parker's lap, the company has to go to general quarters over this and that's what they're doing. For the life of me I can't figure out the strategy behind Cleary doing this. It's only going to poison the relationship which has in the past been very beneficial to the East. Screaming loudly like Cleary has done will certainly generate attention, but when the outside authorities confirm what the company has already found - nothing improper done by West employees - then what? You're still under LOA93 and you just bit off the hand that has been so generous to the East since this abortion of a merger began.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well this might be the Fed statute that was broken, in addition the individual states have stricker laws regarding the companies requirements to keep the PII intact and not floating around. Think CA and NY are the two with decent laws in that regard. Anyways. the excerpts from the Fed

More info is needed, but they are on the line as to having a little trouble follow them possibly.


C knowingly transfers or uses, without lawful authority, a means of identification of another person with the intent to commit, or to aid or abet, any unlawful activity that constitutes a violation of Federal law or that constitutes a felony under any applicable State or local law;

# except as provided in paragraphs (3) and (4), a fine under this title or imprisonment for not more than three years, or both, if the offense is --

1. any other production, transfer, or use of means of identification, an identification document, or a false identification document; or

2. an offense under paragraph (3) or (7) of such subsection;


# the offense is an offense under subsection (a)(4) of this section; or

# either --

1. the production, transfer, possession, or use prohibited by this section is in or affects interstate or foreign commerce; or

2. the means of identification, identification documents, false identification document, or document-making implement is transported in the mail in the course of the production, transfer, possession, or use prohibited by this section.

# the term "means of identification" means any name or number that may be used, alone or in conjunction with any other information, to identify a specific individual, including any --

1. name, social security number, date of birth, official State or government issued driver’s license or identification number, alien registration number, government passport number, employer or taxpayer identification number;

2. unique biometric data, such as fingerprint, voice print, retina or iris image, or other unique physical representation;

3. unique electronic identification number, address, or routing code; or

4. telecommunications identifying information or access device as defined in section 1029(e);



Oh and just for giggles. Here's the AZ statute the covers ID theft. Seems that the individual DOES NOT HAVE TO SUFFER HARM to be considered as having their id stolen

13-2008. Taking identity of another person or entity; knowingly accepting identity of another person; classification

A. A person commits taking the identity of another person or entity if the person knowingly takes, purchases, manufactures, records, possesses or uses any personal identifying information or entity identifying information of another person or entity, including a real or fictitious person or entity, without the consent of that other person or entity, with the intent to obtain or use the other person's or entity's identity for any unlawful purpose or to cause loss to a person or entity whether or not the person or entity actually suffers any economic loss as a result of the offense, or with the intent to obtain or continue employment.

B. A person commits knowingly accepting the identity of another person if the person, in hiring an employee, knowingly does both of the following:

1. Accepts any personal identifying information of another person from an individual and knows that the individual is not the actual person identified by that information.

2. Uses that identity information for the purpose of determining whether the individual who presented that identity information has the legal right or authorization under federal law to work in the United States as described and determined under the processes and procedures under 8 United States Code section 1324a.

C. On the request of a person or entity, a peace officer in any jurisdiction in which an element of an offense under this section is committed, a result of an offense under this section occurs or the person or entity whose identity is taken or accepted resides or is located shall take a report. The peace officer may provide a copy of the report to any other law enforcement agency that is located in a jurisdiction in which a violation of this section occurred.

D. If a defendant is alleged to have committed multiple violations of this section within the same county, the prosecutor may file a complaint charging all of the violations and any related charges under other sections that have not been previously filed in any precinct in which a violation is alleged to have occurred. If a defendant is alleged to have committed multiple violations of this section within the state, the prosecutor may file a complaint charging all of the violations and any related charges under other sections that have not been previously filed in any county in which a violation is alleged to have occurred.

E. This section does not apply to a violation of section 4-241 by a person who is under twenty-one years of age.

F. Taking the identity of another person or entity or knowingly accepting the identity of another person is a class 4 felony.


NC law has some interesting reading too... Looks like the company needs to work on their Notice of Security Breach, just a little. Wonder if they have notified the Consumer Protection Division too?!?!?!?

§ 75-62. Social security number protection.
(a) Except as provided in subsection (B) of this section, a business may not do any of the following:
(1) Intentionally communicate or otherwise make available to the general public an individual's social security number.
(6) Sell, lease, loan, trade, rent, or otherwise intentionally disclose an individual's social security number to a third party without written consent to the disclosure from the individual, when the party making the disclosure knows or in the exercise of reasonable diligence would have reason to believe that the third party lacks a legitimate purpose for obtaining the individual's social security number.


75-65. Protection from security breaches.
(a) Any business that owns or licenses personal information of residents of North Carolina or any business that conducts business in North Carolina that owns or licenses personal information in any form (whether computerized, paper, or otherwise) shall provide notice to the affected person that there has been a security breach following discovery or notification of the breach. The disclosure notification shall be made without unreasonable delay, consistent with the legitimate needs of law enforcement, as provided in subsection (c) of this section, and consistent with any measures necessary to determine sufficient contact information, determine the scope of the breach and restore the reasonable integrity, security, and confidentiality of the data system. For the purposes of this section, personal information shall not include electronic identification numbers, electronic mail names or addresses, Internet account numbers, Internet identification names, parent's legal surname prior to marriage, or a password unless this information would permit access to a person's financial account or resources.
(B) Any business that maintains or possesses records or data containing personal information of residents of North Carolina that the business does not own or license, or any business that conducts business in North Carolina that maintains or possesses records or data containing personal information that the business does not own or license shall notify the owner or licensee of the information of any security breach immediately following discovery of the breach, consistent with the legitimate needs of law enforcement as provided in subsection (c) of this section.
(c) The notice required by this section shall be delayed if a law enforcement agency informs the business that notification may impede a criminal investigation or jeopardize national or homeland security, provided that such request is made in writing or the business documents such request contemporaneously in writing, including the name of the law enforcement officer making the request and the officer's law enforcement agency engaged in the investigation. The notice required by this section shall be provided without unreasonable delay after the law enforcement agency communicates to the business its determination that notice will no longer impede the investigation or jeopardize national or homeland security.
(d) The notice shall be clear and conspicuous. The notice shall include all of the following:
(1) A description of the incident in general terms.
(2) A description of the type of personal information that was subject to the unauthorized access and acquisition.
(3) A description of the general acts of the business to protect the personal information from further unauthorized access.
(4) A telephone number for the business that the person may call for further information and assistance, if one exists.
(5) Advice that directs the person to remain vigilant by reviewing account statements and monitoring free credit reports.
(6) The toll-free numbers and addresses for the major consumer reporting agencies.
(7) The toll-free numbers, addresses, and Web site addresses for the Federal Trade Commission and the North Carolina Attorney General's Office, along with a statement that the individual can obtain information from these sources about preventing identity theft.
(e) For purposes of this section, notice to affected persons may be provided by one of the following methods:
(1) Written notice.
(2) Electronic notice, for those persons for whom it has a valid e-mail address and who have agreed to receive communications electronically if the notice provided is consistent with the provisions regarding electronic records and signatures for notices legally required to be in writing set forth in 15 U.S.C. § 7001.
(3) Telephonic notice provided that contact is made directly with the affected persons.
(4) Substitute notice, if the business demonstrates that the cost of providing notice would exceed two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000) or that the affected class of subject persons to be notified exceeds 500,000, or if the business does not have sufficient contact information or consent to satisfy subdivisions (1), (2), or (3) of this subsection, for only those affected persons without sufficient contact information or consent, or if the business is unable to identify particular affected persons, for only those unidentifiable affected persons. Substitute notice shall consist of all the following:
a. E-mail notice when the business has an electronic mail address for the subject persons. Conspicuous posting of the notice on the Web site page of the business, if one is maintained.
c. Notification to major statewide media.
(e1) In the event a business provides notice to an affected person pursuant to this section, the business shall notify without unreasonable delay the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney General's Office of the nature of the breach, the number of consumers affected by the breach, steps taken to investigate the breach, steps taken to prevent a similar breach in the future, and information regarding the timing, distribution, and content of the notice.
(f) In the event a business provides notice to more than 1,000 persons at one time pursuant to this section, the business shall notify, without unreasonable delay, the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney General's Office and all consumer reporting agencies that compile and maintain files on consumers on a nationwide basis, as defined in 15 U.S.C. § 1681a(p), of the timing, distribution, and content of the notice.
(g) Any waiver of the provisions of this Article is contrary to public policy and is void and unenforceable

(i) A violation of this section is a violation of G.S. 75-1.1. No private right of action may be brought by an individual for a violation of this section unless such individual is injured as a result of the violation.

 

[nic4us]

Wait until they make statements they didn't look at the data, before you show the rats their little electron tracks scurrying everywhere. Nobody believes the statements. Scherff has probably already sung a nice little song about what they ALL knew. They knew what was in there. That is how the got the wives/husbands names on some of the mailers. How is the spouses name in just the pilots' basic information? They aren't, and this is what is going to get this group dead to rights. I bet they were ALL OVER Clearys' information. We'll put his name first on the independent class action just so there is no confusion as to what this is all about.

Swan,

You replied that your partner saw the brochure, was their name included in the address? Further, was there a difference in the address between the first mailer and the second? i.e. was the first mailing addressed to you soley, then the second included a Mr & Mrs, Ron & Nancy or similar?

 

[aquagreen73s]

All of the above save for the identity theft is directed at the company.

The West is certainly amused to see the family fued break out between USAPA and the company over this. A lot of us are saying, "told 'ya Doug."

 

[Metroyet]

All of the above save for the identity theft is directed at the company.

The West is certainly amused to see the family fued break out between USAPA and the company over this. A lot of us are saying, "told 'ya Doug."

No Kidding. The only thing more obnoxious than the volume at which USAPA is shouting is the stench of pure, un-cut desperation. The dictator and Scabs are willing to sell their first born at this point just to chalk up anything that could be misconstrued as a "win".

More Narcissistic Personality Disorder rearing it's crazy head.

Has anyone ever witness another labor union....of any description, in any Country, Ever that spends this much time and effort on Witch hunts, demands of retribution, and outright hostility? Shouldn't a labor union actually DO something for the membership? Another question. Since USCABA lied about the dues rate, and lied about how much more financially efficient they were going to be because there would be no "national"...why is USAPA nearly out of money at this time? Where did it all go? Now would be a really bad time for dues to stop flowing....again.

 

[luvthe9]

Well it appears the pilots aside from USAPA have had just about enough of AOL, now we hear EFC LLC. (East Coast Flyers) is in the early stages of forming with the intent to start a civlil suit against AOL and possiibly the company. This just keeps getting better everyday. The west will need alot more donations so get those checkbooks out fellows.