US Pilots Labor Discussion

[CactusPilot1]

There will be no combined list to use, everyone knows this place will be parted out and those WEST valuable assets will take those WEST pilots with them! MM!

There will be a combined list minus a few who are unable to comply with the results.

Breaks my heart.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Double post

 

[traderjake]

The only ones that continue to try to revive that dead and buried issue are on this board. Everone else knows it is a dead issue, at least until a joint contract is ratified; and then again, if and when it is brought up as DFRII.

V

I guess in your little fantasy world the company and the courts are nobody.

 

[Phoenix]

Having a single list, and using it are two different things. Of course, we've been through this argument, what now, 6,453 times and you disagree with me. I disagree with you.

If you knew the answer (that you think is correct, I don't) before you started typing, why did you ask it?

Should we argue this 6,454 times now? Is that all you want to do? If so, you are just SO, SO tiresome and I, for one, find you insipid.

Insipid... your use of a robust vocabulary mixed with common sense logic was a refreshing, bold, and full bodied fare.

 

[BoeingBoy]

If anything, there really is no 'DOH battle' at all. That decision has already been made with the new union bylaws and foundation. If there is any battle, it is for those that want to continue to persue the failed Nic.

Well, you know what they say opinions are like, and that everyone has one. If you want to put your faith in USAPA's C&B/L's, put into place after the combined seniority list had already been achieved and accepted by the company, that's certainly your right. Likewise if you think the courts, in the final analysis, will undermine decades of binding arbitration by finding that it's results are so easily set aside, you're certainly entitled to think that. It is truly amazing how much $eham mentions the Addington case if that "decision has already been made".

Jim

 

[Captain Underpants]

No, sir. Quite wrong. Although the Nic list cannot be implemented without a contract it is the accepted and recognized seniority list per the letter signed by Doug Parker on Dec 20, 2007. If we merge with another carrier today that is the only list that may be used.

Ames,

That is absolutely not true. The McCaskill-Bond law would be controlling in a future merger since no other carrier is represented by USAPA. The other airlines pilots would be represented by their union and all USAirways pilots would be represented by USAPA. McCaskill Bond requires a fair and equitable seniority integration and any agreement reached by mutual agreement of the two unions meets that standard by law and can not be undone even in Federal Court. The only role the Federal courts have under McCaskill-Bond as stated in the law is to enforce the seniority agreement of the unions. Unlike ALPA merger policy there are no specific requirements (under either McCaskill-Bond or Allegheny-Mohawk lpp's) to what list or methods the unions can or can not use to arrive at a mutually agreeable integrated list.

USAirways will almost certainly be the most "junior" airline in any future merger. Pilots not even hired yet could likely have the relative positions of A320 captains before any future merger occurs due to thousands of certain East attrition vacancies. Unlike ALPA the USAPA constitution and merger policy does not protect yet to be hired pilots currently in Kindergarten. There is no chance USAPA would take a chance on arbitration when a DOH merger with fences and conditions and restrictions would likely be the preferred integration method of both pilot groups.

underpants

 

[aquagreen73s]

McCaskill-Bond says nothing about implementation. Don't believe me? Read the bill yourself. All McCaskill-Bond does is to mandate that which AAA-AWA already has: an arbitration. Don't believe me? Read the bill yourself.

 

[traderjake]

USAirways will almost certainly be the most "junior" airline in any future merger. Pilots not even hired yet could likely have the relative positions of A320 captains before any future merger occurs due to thousands of certain East attrition vacancies. Unlike ALPA the USAPA constitution and merger policy does not protect yet to be hired pilots currently in Kindergarten. There is no chance USAPA would take a chance on arbitration when a DOH merger with fences and conditions and restrictions would likely be the preferred integration method of both pilot groups.

underpants

You and V live in the same fantasy world.

 

[luvthe9]

US Airways Ranked Second To Last By FORTUNE Magazine

FORTUNE magazine recently issued its annual FORTUNE World’s Most Admired Companies airlines list. This list is based on results of a global survey of airline executives, directors and analysts who rate companies in their own industry on nine criteria: people management, quality of management, innovation, long-term investment, use of corporate assets, financial soundness, social responsibility, quality of product and services and global competitiveness. Delta Airlines was ranked first in the survey. The airlines ranked second through tenth in the FORTUNE industry list, in order, are: Singapore Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Lufthansa Group, Air France-KLM Group, Cathay Pacific Airways, United Continental, Qantas Airways, British Airways, All Nippon Airways, US Airways Group and AMR.

US Airways management is happy to tout how well they are doing, and is even happier to then reward themselves unconscionable bonuses while paying some of their employees bankruptcy-era wages, but apparently the other airline executives, directors and analysts who rated companies in their own industry weren’t quite as impressed. They ranked US Airways near the bottom of the list.

TEMPE ROCKS!!!!!!KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

 

[luvthe9]

That was the entire intent of the "Safety Survey". Everybody saw it as the farce it was. The company simply laughed at it and dismissed USAPA with a flippant wave of the hand. USAPA is an ever increasing embarrassment
/blight upon the profession.

Tell that to the 76 crew that all went to the hospital Wednseday along with passengers. for fumes of some sort for the 4th time on this aircraft, I think it has been removed from service. This company could care less about the passengers of employees. If the peolple only new the half of it here. The embarassment is your America West management team.

 

[cleardirect]

Since there will not be a joint CBA in place, there are still two separate seniority lists which are active. The next transaction will be unique (get that, Chip? The UCT....you were right) in that THREE seniority lists will be merged under a McCaskill-Bond federally mandated arbitration. There will be no recourse on that since it will NOT be an intra-union bargaining position.

Unique how? I disagree that it will be a three list merger. The Nicolau was completed and the company accepted it. If we merge with an ALPA carrier what do you think they are going to and demand the list be? If it is an ALPA carrier there will be the majority next time and we will go back to ALPA. Can you say DFR if they fail to use their own merger policy and list from that transaction.

Have you read the frontier/Midwest/lynx/republic arbitration list? The first test of that bill was a four way merger. How did that end up? Was the “gold standard” DOH used or was relative seniority with the furloughs going to the bottom?

We may want to use a 3 way list. The west could get back the lost 500 positions. Guess what boys? Single certificate, single carrier. You guys cannot say that the west does not have WB in this merger. We would have as much expectation as you of flying those airplanes.

 

[aquagreen73s]

The thinking (if that' what anyone can call it) by the UHLs is distrubing. The entire post by Underpants is predicated on nothing connected to reality. All he had to do was download MB himself and read it. But no, he runs off creating an elaborate dissertation of what MB means when he obviously hasn't read a single thing.

Here's MB. It's quite easy to understand. Nothing that Underpants wrote is remotely correct, yet he believes himself with such vigor. Scary.

CONSOLIDATED APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2008
HR 2764
SEC. 117. LABOR INTEGRATION.
(a) LABOR INTEGRATION.—With respect to any covered transaction involving two or more covered air
carriers that results in the combination of crafts or classes that are subject to the Railway Labor Act
(45 U.S.C. 151 et seq.), sections 3 and 13 of the labor protective provisions imposed by the Civil
Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger (as published at 59 C.A.B. 45) shall apply to
the integration of covered employees of the covered air carriers; except that—
(1) if the same collective bargaining agent represents the combining crafts or classes at each
of the covered air carriers, that collective bargaining agent’s internal policies regarding
integration, if any, will not be affected by and will supersede the requirements of this
section; and
(2) the requirements of any collective bargaining agreement that may be applicable to the
terms of integration involving covered employees of a covered air carrier shall not be
affected by the requirements of this section as to the employees covered by that agreement,
so long as those provisions allow for the protections afforded by sections 3 and 13 of the
Allegheny-Mohawk provisions.
(B) DEFINITIONS.—In this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) AIR CARRIER.—The term ‘‘air carrier’’ means an air carrier that holds a certificate issued
under chapter 411 of title 49, United States Code.
(2) COVERED AIR CARRIER.—The term ‘‘covered air carrier’’ means an air carrier that is
involved in a covered transaction.
(3) COVERED EMPLOYEE.—The term ‘‘covered employee’’ means an employee who—
(A) is not a temporary employee; and
(B) is a member of a craft or class that is subject to the Railway Labor Act (45 U.S.C.
151 et seq.).
(4) COVERED TRANSACTION.—The term ‘‘covered transaction’’ means—
(A) a transaction for the combination of multiple air carriers into a single air carrier;
and which
(B) involves the transfer of ownership or control of—
(i) 50 percent or more of the equity securities (as defined in section 101 of
title 11, United States Code) of an air carrier; or
(ii) 50 percent or more (by value) of the assets of the air carrier.
(c) APPLICATION.—This section shall not apply to any covered transaction involving a covered air
carrier that took place before the date of enactment of this Act.
(d) EFFECTIVENESS OF PROVISION.—This section shall become effective on the date of enactment of this
Act and shall continue in effect in fiscal years after fiscal year 2008.

 

[traderjake]

US Airways management is happy to tout how well they are doing, and is even happier to then reward themselves unconscionable bonuses while paying some of their employees bankruptcy-era wages,

TEMPE ROCKS!!!!!!KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

Nice job USAPA, wasting three years and destroying any leverage we might have had to get a better contract.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Tell that to the 76 crew that all went to the hospital Wednseday along with passengers. for fumes of some sort for the 4th on this aircraft, I think it has been removed from service. This company could care less about the passengers of employees. If the peolple only new the half of it here. The embarassment is your America West management team.

Funny thing, I don't recall Bular and Hogg being on the America West's management team prior to the acquisition in 2005. <_<

 

[Ames]

There will be no combined list to use, everyone knows this place will be parted out and those WEST valuable assets will take those WEST pilots with them! MM!

Spoken like a true moron.