US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hate2fly]

You shame us all Hate. I actually thought you had a thread of credibility. You sound like Rich Peters.

The Strip club (if it is even still open) is a half mile up the street, exact same distance from the very hotel the Officers have been staying in for almost 3 years. I don’t look for massage parlors either, but the fact you have somehow found three of them is interesting. I will let someone else make the jokes.

Truth be told, the most dangerous place for union work is now INSIDE the USAPA office.

Basing a day to day union decision on "whether the West reps like it or not" is very telling on your part. I hope you never attain a position of real responsibility where you could harm us all with your bias.

RR

Reed,

The place is a dump! Everyone knows it. All 6 guys in my training class were laughing about it. Union Hall right?

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Yea bright spark and she read the part about them staying out of it......GET IT
you think she will jump in when the 9th did not. We shall see!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

I would imagine the NMB is looking into a DC 3 charter in PHX. There might be enough of a lull in the paraquat spraying to allow the NMB lawyers to have it on call for the next few weeks in case they have to do another drop into a renegade AZ courtroom.

 

[Black Swan]

You shame us all Hate. I actually thought you had a thread of credibility. You sound like Rich Peters.

The Strip club (if it is even still open) is a half mile up the street, exact same distance from the very hotel the Officers have been staying in for almost 3 years. I don’t look for massage parlors either, but the fact you have somehow found three of them is interesting. I will let someone else make the jokes.

Truth be told, the most dangerous place for union work is now INSIDE the USAPA office.

Basing a day to day union decision on "whether the West reps like it or not" is very telling on your part. I hope you never attain a position of real responsibility where you could harm us all with your bias.

RR

Hate is right on with Woodlawn. The area is not good at all. Look at the 7-11. The one with the security cameras with strobes on them just to get your attention.The bad guys will just move to the next place, without the cameras and continue the trouble. And the cops who constantly have to hang in the area. The hotel committee moved us out of the Sterling for the very reason of safety. Wait until some secretary gets mugged in the lot some dark evening. You will see the reason the place is avoided by many locals. Penny wise, pound foolish.

 

[Zone5]

Sure you can “trust” the NAC member who sits across the table from Management. Those negotiations are kind of like the Japanese high command (aka USAPA NAC) coming aboard the USS Missouri in September of 1945 and meeting with General Douglas MacArthur, Admiral Chester Nimitz, and Admiral Bill Halsey. Lots of give and take negotiations between two worthy and equally-matched adversaries, each having a good deal of leverage to use against the other side. Oh wait, I guess those “negotiations” weren’t quite as equally balanced as one side actually had all the leverage (Management) against a defeated and humiliated opponent (USAPA). Now if the USAPA NAC could only figure out why they have no leverage at the negotiating table (psst…it’s section 22!).

Section 22? Section 22 is of little or no financial consequence to the company. It merely determines the names of the individuals flying however many aircraft the company decides to fly. Period.

Every other section of a JCBA could be negotiated and agreed to if the company wanted to. They are the ones holding the process hostage! Because they can and at the end of the day, maximum delay equals minimum cost.

seajay

 

[Reed Richards]

Hate is right on with Woodlawn. The area is not good at all. Look at the 7-11. The one with the security cameras with strobes on them just to get your attention.The bad guys will just move to the next place, without the cameras and continue the trouble. And the cops who constantly have to hang in the area. The hotel committee moved us out of the Sterling for the very reason of safety. Wait until some secretary gets mugged in the lot some dark evening. You will see the reason the place is avoided by many locals. Penny wise, pound foolish.

Look at the airport, security cameras everywhere and probably 200 times the number of security personal on staff each day. Really.

The hotel committee did not "move us out of Woodlawn"..but there is another tale of ego and selfishness there not worth addressing among strangers.

There is less crime in the Woodlawn area than at our current location at South Park. There has never been a single incident of crime against an employee at Woodlawn, at least any recorded by the county.

The union sees just fine to house its Officers, Committee members, Lawyers, and even union guests across the street from the new office. And suddenly you are worried about the hired help? Do they deserve better than our own? They did at ALPA.

It’s all moot anyway. Lease is signed.

We all know the real reason Woodlawn was not favored by certain Officers...they don't want the lowly membership checking in on them..and finding them not there. That and the West Reps trying to circumvent DOH by moving the Office 4 miles down the street..good plan.

Sorry all, I realize you could care less about something so trivial as the office location. I am ashamed I know as much as I do about it. We pay our Reps (all of them) and Officers good money to quietly take care of such matters without bringing seniority into it.

RR

 

[Hate2fly]

Vey well could be. I'm in that group you mention. I don't look at it as being screwed. DOH would make me a 757 captain overnight. That would screw the CO guys and is not going to happen. Straight slotting by seat could "screw me" but I don't see it that way. Whatever happens in binding arbitration will be somewhat fair, and I have no problem accepting the results and moving forward. We have a great company to build and an excellent contract coming our way soon. So no regrets no matter how the SLI turns out.

Sorry to disappoint you. I know you want everyone else (especially us UAL guys) to suffer in misery along with you.

jetzz,

DOH would not make you a 757 Captain overnight. There would be conditions and restrictions that would prevent that. I have many friends at UAL and wish you all the very best. I realize that this is your first merger and this will change your outlook in the future.

Hate

 

[CallawayGolf]

Section 22? Section 22 is of little or no financial consequence to the company. It merely determines the names of the individuals flying however many aircraft the company decides to fly. Period.

Every other section of a JCBA could be negotiated and agreed to if the company wanted to. They are the ones holding the process hostage! Because they can and at the end of the day, maximum delay equals minimum cost.

seajay

Breach of contract and collusion are two very serious legal and financially harmful actions that the Company will not go along with. There is far more risk in joining in with USAPA’s non-NIC proposal for section 22 than there is in negotiating pay rates and other financial sections of the JCBA. So, as long as USAPA keeps balking at the NIC for section 22, the JCBA negotiations will just be stuck where they are. USAPA is 100% to blame for the pace and progress of negotiations as they have yielded all leverage and power to Management because of their failure to accept the NIC. If this means more profit to the bottom line and more executive compensation, then USAPA gets credit for those consequences by not negotiating a new JCBA (or even getting close to one) in more than three years.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Section 22? Section 22 is of little or no financial consequence to the company.

In the abstract, so long as there's no bump/no flush, that's true. But what you uSAPians consistently ignore is the fact that the company can be held liable for agreeing to a contract term with the union, when that term is a DFR breach. That's what the declaratory action is all about. You need to read the transcripts. For once you need to start thinking for yourselves.

 

[aquagreen73s]

We all know the real reason Woodlawn was not favored by certain Officers...they don't want the lowly membership checking in on them..and finding them not there. That and the West Reps trying to circumvent DOH by moving the Office 4 miles down the street..good plan.

Always a conspiracy isn't it!

"A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most commonly hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The latter may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgement are all common in schizophrenia.[6] There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness.[7] Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia,[8] as are symptoms of paranoia; social isolation commonly occurs.[9] In one uncommon subtype, the person may be largely mute, remain motionless in bizarre postures, or exhibit purposeless agitation, all signs of catatonia.[10]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

 

[No Land Green]

. You need to read the transcripts.

I have read them. The rule of law will prevail, just as it has been.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I have read them. The rule of law will prevail, just as it has been.

Well, it sounds like you once again are alone in your interpretations.

I guess all I have to say is, enjoy LOA93.

 

[No Land Green]

Well, it sounds like you once again are alone in your interpretations.

We shall see.........


If you are so sure of yourself, then why does it irk you when I say the rule of law will prevail? Is there something you are not telling your AOL followers?

 

[Reed Richards]

Always a conspiracy isn't it!

"A person diagnosed with schizophrenia may experience hallucinations (most commonly hearing voices), delusions (often bizarre or persecutory in nature), and disorganized thinking and speech. The latter may range from loss of train of thought, to sentences only loosely connected in meaning, to incoherence known as word salad in severe cases. Social withdrawal, sloppiness of dress and hygiene, and loss of motivation and judgement are all common in schizophrenia.[6] There is often an observable pattern of emotional difficulty, for example lack of responsiveness.[7] Impairment in social cognition is associated with schizophrenia,[8] as are symptoms of paranoia; social isolation commonly occurs.[9] In one uncommon subtype, the person may be largely mute, remain motionless in bizarre postures, or exhibit purposeless agitation, all signs of catatonia.[10]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

Aqua, I was tongue in cheek about the West Reps moving the office to affect seniority...

But I think your paragraph pretty much nails me. I will try and do better.

RR

 

[Zone5]

Breach of contract and collusion are two very serious legal and financially harmful actions that the Company will not go along with. There is far more risk in joining in with USAPA’s non-NIC proposal for section 22 than there is in negotiating pay rates and other financial sections of the JCBA. So, as long as USAPA keeps balking at the NIC for section 22, the JCBA negotiations will just be stuck where they are. USAPA is 100% to blame for the pace and progress of negotiations as they have yielded all leverage and power to Management because of their failure to accept the NIC. If this means more profit to the bottom line and more executive compensation, then USAPA gets credit for those consequences by not negotiating a new JCBA (or even getting close to one) in more than three years.

They most certainly will go along with a non-NIC proposal for section 22, if Judge Silver gives them a liability pass. Which of course, the company hopes she doesn't, because then they would have to quit stalling the JCBA process.

Regardless, as I have stated several times before and you don't address, section 22 has virtually NOTHING to do with the rest of the JCBA! At this point in time, if the company truly wanted to complete negotiations (everything except section 22), they would have by now. They have chosen to stonewall the negotiations, for obvious financial reasons, as you point out and everyone knows, especially the company.

Think of section 22 as the signature on the picture, no reason not to finish the rest of the painting first.

seajay

 

[No Land Green]

They most certainly will go along with a non-NIC proposal for section 22, if Judge Silver gives them a liability pass. Which of course, the company hopes she doesn't, because then they would have to quit stalling the JCBA process.

Regardless, as I have stated several times before and you don't address, section 22 has virtually NOTHING to do with the rest of the JCBA! At this point in time, if the company truly wanted to complete negotiations (everything except section 22), they would have by now. They have chosen to stonewall the negotiations, for obvious financial reasons, as you point out and everyone knows, especially the company.

Think of section 22 as the signature on the picture, no reason not to finish the rest of the painting first.

seajay

Seajay, you are spot on. What's ironic is the West's beloved ALPA now does it the way you state above, worked with DAL/NWA and now UAL/CAL is doing it that way. Wonder why Tempe can't do it that way? Did you say "stonewalling" above?