US Pilots Labor Discussion

[trevrep]

The B.S. just keeps flowing out of you. Prove or show where you got the information for the above 3 statements. Its more B.S. thats all you are worth B.S.

Hey Mikey60.......you think a mediocre contract with DOH if put out to vote next week would pass? I do.

Mediocre pay, benefits etc.....but you got your DOH...in turn Parker gets you to give up the C of C language....voila, you have your DOH and new contract.

Minor detail....it's possible then DFR II if the outcome favored the West, the company could be forced to change sec 22 to the NIC.

What do you have then? A piece of work for another five years AND the NIC.

Think it couldn't happen?

Just speculation on my part, no one on these boards knows how it's going to turn out....but as we've learned here out West....there's some sneaky bastardaros out there, some very cunning and smart.

Seeham's motivation, make some money. East pilots motivation, DOH. West pilots motivation, NIC.

Give it to the courts, lawyers, judges and corporate antics....and guess who gets screwed? YOU and ME.

Stay tuned, film at 11....

 

[trevrep]

Depends upon what the company does. Silver is either going to dismiss this, or tell them what they already know. Stick with the Nic/T.A. and you will never be successfully sued by anyone....or violate the TA, collude with USCABA and allow their second bite at the apple at the sole expense of the West and get sued. The company has no conscience in any of this, they're going to look at the numbers. I have no doubt the company will allow a doh list as long as the contract is AT LEAST as crappy as LOA93. They save enough there to offset being sued. Will East pilots vote for that? Let's say another LOA93 contract gets voted in with the huge doh carrot in it.

Then, West sues, gets injunction slapping the company with the Nic. list. Now, you have a ratified joint contract...LOA93 style, the Nic award, and no financial relief in sight for the majority of your remaining years as an airline pilot. Is that what you expect USAPA to provide for you...the dues paying member? Nothing they've ever promised has come to fruition. Are you willing to bet your remaining career on a USAPA "promise"?

What seems obvious to me is this: there is no way the company is going to get a crystal clear green light to do as they please. Their only safe harbor is to use the Nic. award. They have absolutely no obligation what so ever to agree to anything USAPA wants. They'll either want to end this with a decent/realistic contract with the Nic. award, or just keep the mess alive tied up in court. The NMB is going to park negotiations fairly soon anyway. There will never be a strike, separate ops forever, LOA 93 in perpetuity. That's where this is going. Why? because 53% of the pilot group was dumb enough to believe $e$ham and his outright lies. The same 53% also refused to face reality and accept the fact that seniority is seniority. It isn't longevity or anything else. $e$ham, Bradford et.al, and the ignorant 53% will have cost your pilot group more money than anything else in the history of the profession. Honestly, many of you would be making more money today if AAA simply went under a few years ago. Something would have filled the void bringing many of you with it. Oh well, water under the bridge.

$e$ham went all in with your futures, (not his of course, he's rich beyond his wildest dreams thanks to your dues money). Barring any changes, I'd get comfortable. Nothing is going to change for a very long time. If ever. At least with USAPA. I'd venture a guess that when Kasher crushes the hyped up, manufactured Dreams of your lunatic leadership, USAPA will be on the fast track to the funeral pyre. There isn't 53% anymore. Not by a long shot. I bet half the original USAPA voters wouldn't vote for them again. Maybe that's the light at the end of the tunnel...the flames of USAPA burning to the ground. Good Luck.

That's what I'm talking about! But my blabbering tonight is behind some Percocet's for my throbbing jaw surgery......except for management, we're all going to get screwed, BY EACH OTHER!

 

[mrbreeze]

Except for the "binding" part and the "arbitration" part. Live up to your promises, and then maybe you can start expecting others to do the same.

The Nic was flawed from the beginning......just ask any Mid Atlantic pilot. How can anyone accept such a screwed up mess?

Also, the Nic wasn't the only issue that prompted the East pilots to vote ALPA out. I had quit paying ALPA dues 9 months before the Nic even came out, due to the way they did not represent us through the bankruptcies and the loss of pension, without getting a chance to vote on it, as promised. It has nothing to do with stealing from the west pilots.

It has a lot to do with giving up $8 billion in wages to make sure our jobs were going to be there in the future, which is something that we brought to the table. Lose 17yrs of seniority in the process? Hell no!

 

[nic4us]

I heard that UnbiassedFacts.org is reporting she said, "Whinny the Pooh has been harmed." Ironically neither of the two supposed statements have any relevance to the DJ request before her so both dubious reports are suspect.

Lets send them to ask of the owl if he's there, how to loosen a jar from the nose of a bear.

The bear being usapa, the jar being Seeham's sphincter.

 

[Pi brat]

Lets send them to ask of the owl if he's there, how to loosen a jar from the nose of a bear.

The bear being usapa, the jar being Seeham's sphincter.

First Calvin and now Winnie. Is there nothing this fight won't desecrate?!

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways Receives Additional Recognition For Safety Programs

See Story

 

[Freebird]

The Nic was flawed from the beginning......just ask any Mid Atlantic pilot. How can anyone accept such a screwed up mess?

Also, the Nic wasn't the only issue that prompted the East pilots to vote ALPA out. I had quit paying ALPA dues 9 months before the Nic even came out, due to the way they did not represent us through the bankruptcies and the loss of pension, without getting a chance to vote on it, as promised. It has nothing to do with stealing from the west pilots.

It has a lot to do with giving up $8 billion in wages to make sure our jobs were going to be there in the future, which is something that we brought to the table. Lose 17yrs of seniority in the process? Hell no!

How does one become a MidAtlantic pilot? Furlough.

How is it that AAA MEC couldnt come up with a 'valid' list in the allotted time? perhaps, they gave a tainted list to be able to complain if they didnt get DOH?

How much money are you losing by not accepting the Nic? You will never get the money back that you're bypassing for your DOH screwjob. Welcome to Binding Arbitration. Honor your agreements.

USAPA = Epic Fail.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Welcome to Binding Arbitration. Honor your agreements.

What is it with this collective West disconnect over membership ratification and no time line ? You honor yours.

.... and "NO" no one cares about proving anything. It's been 4 years - get a grip.

 

[Phoenix]

... Welcome to Binding Arbitration...

How sloppy of you... You forgot "final".

 

[nic4us]

What is it with this collective West disconnect over membership ratification and no time line ? You honor yours.

.... and "NO" no one cares about proving anything. It's been 4 years - get a grip.

No disconnect. You are free to vote no as many times as you like to a Nic inclusive tenative agreement.

What is the West not honoring?

 

[skyflyr69]

No disconnect. You are free to vote no as many times as you like to a Nic inclusive tenative agreement.

What is the West not honoring?


NOTHING ! They voted against equal pay for equal work and NOW advocating being Scabs. Its on the crew room visit.

Shame on those Scabs !

 

[CallawayGolf]

NOTHING ! They voted against equal pay for equal work and NOW advocating being Scabs. Its on the crew room visit.

Shame on those Scabs !

Has USAPA held a membership vote on pay parity? I must have missed that. Equal pay for equal work only comes via the JCBA and the JCBA only comes with the NIC. The sooner the east pilots accept that, the sooner they will have pay parity.

USAPA has the sole responsibility to 1) accept the NIC, 2) unify the pilots so that all will support the strategic objectives of the union, and 3) negotiate in good faith to achieve the best possible pilot contract for all US pilots. Nothing a west pilot can do will change this except vote for a recertification to an actual CBA that understands and fulfills their obligations and duties.

Scabs? USAPA is so far away from any kind of legal strike action and always will be that talk of such things is utter nonsense. USAPA is spinning in the wind because they cannot comprehend reality or are willingly ignorant of it. I suppose that is an appropriate description for their supporters as well. Ignorance and zealousness is a dangerous combination and USAPA is a shining example of this.

 

[Schultz]

How does one become a MidAtlantic pilot? Furlough.

Wrong, that was only one way. Read Attactment B, of the Restructuring Agreement. Then review the MDA lawsuit. No matter how Judge Silver rules, this won't be over anytime soon.

 

[nic4us]

No disconnect. You are free to vote no as many times as you like to a Nic inclusive tenative agreement.

What is the West not honoring?


NOTHING ! They voted against equal pay for equal work and NOW advocating being Scabs. Its on the crew room visit.

Shame on those Scabs !

I do not know what you are talking about in regards to "they voted against equal pay".

The only votes that have been taken were during the representational election in which usapa was elected. By walking from the negotiating table, practicing dual unionism, and eventually electing usapa, the east sealed all our fate to no contract for a very long time. BTW, the West does not do equal work for more pay, we do considerably less work for more pay.

There is no real threat of anybody scabbing. usapa will never get to self help, so the threat is moot.

 

[nic4us]

Wrong, that was only one way. Read Attactment B, of the Restructuring Agreement. Then review the MDA lawsuit. No matter how Judge Silver rules, this won't be over anytime soon.

MDA lawsuit? I thought they were suing ALPA. What happened to that lawsuit anyway?

Serious question for you Schultz. Is there any pilot on the MDA seniority list that was senior to Monda?