US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Well, that's not the way the company's attorney sees it. The company's entire case is built around the lawsuit threat from the West.

Within 30 seconds Siegle brought up the T/A, and he characterized the problem as USAPA wanting to modify it, but the company has no power to do that. Siegle asked rhetorically what the company is supposed to do? Counter with another seniority proposal? They can't which means they're stuck if USAPA insists on non-Nicolau.

Tell the company's lawyer that, who by the way is the recognized expert in the area of Hybrid DFR. If anyone knows about an air carrier's potential liability from a Hybrid DFR suit, it's Seigle. If you were there yesterday you would have seen why the man is a top dollar attorney. He's impressive.

Then why don't they just tell USAPA "Sorry guys, this part is non-negotiable"? What are they going to do if Judge Silver dismisses and the 9th doesn't overrule.

I imagine he is a good attorney, but has there ever been a lawsuit filed for reasons other than what is claimed in court?

I've always thought there was a good chance the company would say they have to stick with the Nic, unless they legally have to negotiate with USAPA. Shouldn't such a bright lawyer know the answer to that simple question? I would imagine it has come up before.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've always thought there was a good chance the company would say they have to stick with the Nic, unless they legally have to negotiate with USAPA. Shouldn't such a bright lawyer know the answer to that simple question? I would imagine it has come up before.

That's the problem - the company has a legal obligation to negotiate with USAPA and a legal obligation to stick with the Nic. A bright lawyer would know that but also know that his/her word carries no weight in legal precedent. A judges ruling does, however, set precedent.

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

That's the problem - the company has a legal obligation to negotiate with USAPA and a legal obligation to stick with the Nic. A bright lawyer would know that but also know that his/her word carries no weight in court precedent. A judges ruling does, however, set precedent.

Jim

Ok, so what do you think? Seems like quite a few on both sides of this seem to think this will be dismissed, that a judge can't guarantee the company won't get sued. What happens then?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ok, so what do you think? Seems like quite a few on both sides of this seem to think this will be dismissed, that a judge can't guarantee the company won't get sued. What happens then?

Well, a while back I gave my handicapping for how the court might rule. But that aside, then the company will have to make a decision - risk legal action from the West pilots and go along with USAPA or play it safe and stick to the Nic. After all, the law says that the company has to negotiate with USAPA but it doesn't say that the company has to give USAPA whatever is asked for...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

That's the problem - the company has a legal obligation to negotiate with USAPA and a legal obligation to stick with the Nic. A bright lawyer would know that but also know that his/her word carries no weight in legal precedent. A judges ruling does, however, set precedent.

Jim

"the company has a legal obligation to negotiate with USAPA" True

"and a legal obligation to stick with the Nic." False, sez who?

"A judges ruling does, however, set precedent." True All roads lead to the Ninth, and they have made it clear we are not bound by Nic. So no matter what happens in Judge Silver's court..we are going back to the Ninth. Anyone think they have had a change of heart? Guess we will know in about 2-3 years.

The Company's lawyer works with the Ninth on a regular basis...he know the deal. Bravo to the Company for a well played hand. The Mediator will not release anyone to strike with this litigation pending.

As to Silver telling USAPA they have to use the Nic, bring it on. Let's say any court tells USAPA that..they are also going to have to tell us what our CBL says. Not going to happen.

Oh yeah, here is what Jim thinks of his ex fellow pilots, the one’s so lucky to share his company:

And I don't think you want to get into the game of guilt by association with the skeletons in the East's closet. After all, I could easily say you refused to correct the injustice done to the Empire and Shuttle pilots, shoot holes in airplanes, run off the runway and into the water at LGA, don't know how to handle windshear, break the nose gear of airplanes, run into other airplanes, are a scab, etc.
Jim

RR

 

[No Land Green]

Ok, so what do you think? Seems like quite a few on both sides of this seem to think this will be dismissed, that a judge can't guarantee the company won't get sued. What happens then?

Whenever someone of authority can come forward and state in plain, uncoded, on a first grade reading level, "you have to use____ List" then hopefully we can move forward................I really don't know.

 

[cactusboy53]

Whenever someone of authority can come forward and state in plain, uncoded, on a first grade reading level, "you have to use____ List" then hopefully we can move forward................I really don't know.

What a coincidence. I believe that is the approximate statement on the last page of the agreement signed by the two parties (AWA MEC & AAA MEC)......"you have to use the arbitrated list....". The only difference is that future agreements may have an additional paragraph that in no uncertain terms will state...."you can not change any party's name, change collective bargaining units cross your fingers, place your fingers in your ears and shout 'LALALALALALA....I Can not hear you'.... in an effort to dodge a final & binding decision".

 

[No Land Green]

What a coincidence. I believe that is the approximate statement on the last page of the agreement signed by the two parties (AWA MEC & AAA MEC)......"you have to use the arbitrated list...

Well if this is in fact true, then maybe collectively (East and West) can sue the Company for delay.

 

[Pi brat]

What a coincidence. I believe that is the approximate statement on the last page of the agreement signed by the two parties (AWA MEC & AAA MEC)......"you have to use the arbitrated list....". The only difference is that future agreements may have an additional paragraph that in no uncertain terms will state...."you can not change any party's name, change collective bargaining units cross your fingers, place your fingers in your ears and shout 'LALALALALALA....I Can not hear you'.... in an effort to dodge a final & binding decision".

Approximate. Which one are you talking about, the TA? I've looked for those exact words and didn't see them. Co you have a reference?

 

[No Land Green]

Approximate. Which one are you talking about, the TA? I've looked for those exact words and didn't see them. Co you have a reference?

Hi Brat,

I've been chiming this all along..........When someone of authority can state in plain language..........

 

[Pi brat]

After all, the law says that the company has to negotiate with USAPA but it doesn't say that the company has to give USAPA whatever is asked for...

Jim

That's true and I've wondered if they would ever try to float something that is not Nic, but not DOH. I'm guessing not.

I guess whether not implementing the Nic is illegal is still the question of the day.

 

[Pi brat]

Hi Brat,

I've been chiming this all along..........When someone of authority can state in plain language..........

Yeah and I agree. The TA seems to have plenty of holes in it.

 

[Freebird]

As to Silver telling USAPA they have to use the Nic, bring it on. Let's say any court tells USAPA that..they are also going to have to tell us what our CBL says. Not going to happen.


RR

Yeah, Right. They are going to bring it on, soon.

Your CBL is B.S. and it was created after the Nic Award. Specifically to circumvent the award. The courts arent as stupid as USAPA. Nice try.

USAPA = Does anybody support our cause anymore? Anyone? Where did everyone go? (They followed the money).

 

[Freebird]

Yeah and I agree. The TA seems to have plenty of holes in it.

The one clear thing in the T/A is that the Nicolau Award would be Final and Binding on all parties. Live up to your agreements. You'll feel better about yourselves. Integrity Matters.

USAPA = Anybody have another scheme?

 

[No Land Green]

Yeah, Right. They are going to bring it on, soon.

Your CBL is B.S. and it was created after the Nic Award. Specifically to circumvent the award. The courts arent as stupid as USAPA. Nice try.

USAPA = Does anybody support our cause anymore? Anyone? Where did everyone go? (They followed the money).

You are entitled to your opinion in regards to USAPA. No matter what List gets used, I never want to see ALPA on this property again. Their expertise has cost the East Millions of $$$$ and I'm not talking about the Nic Award. The ALPA National Quality Assurance is a joke....ALPA should have been launched the day the Defined Benefit Plan was given away.