US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Thank you for calling me young, but I did work for Delta back when they had cigar motored DC-8s! Damn, how those things would scare you when they would start late at night and you weren't paying attention.

Same as the B747-100's converted to freighters...... B)

Otter

 

[OTTER574]

Jack Stephen and John Prater... Now that you are bringing out the ones with credibility, why not mention Lance from CLT too while you are at it. And don't forget Mike Arcamuzi, Tony Cutler, and Derek Martin from FedExwho jumped on the sinking ALPA ship just before the spine broke and it plummeted to the ocean floor.

Don't forget Donn Butkovic who had plan A and plan B to protect the East from the Nic, and was a proud ALPA supporter. We miss him so much.

Don't forget to review Jack's words about why we needed to stay in ALPA, to protect the East from the Nic.

And of course don't forget the wall flower Garland Jones who thought that the CBA election wasn't a referendum on ALAP. Ha! Ha!

Maybe next we can discuss global warming and you can give a link to Al Gore. He's another guy who was slow to accept the results of democracy!

Care to gander what US FEDERAL COURTS of LAW think of usapa and lee seham?

Please answer as honestly as you can without all the BULL ####.

Otter

 

[nevergiveup]

Could there legally be two list? One west and one east? (Disregarding any future mergers.)

 

[Pi brat]

2 pm.

Should be some entertainment tonight.

Thanks nic4us, I was thinking morning.

 

[OTTER574]

Could there legally be two list? One west and one east? (Disregarding any future mergers.)

Simple answer is NO. company and usap...ass would have a BIG PROBLEM and most would expect a refund of goods and services not rendered by hired cba now called usapa!

Please reread the TA and all of it this time please...until then, you're just trying to blow smoke up someones tail pipe.

Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Simple answer is NO. company and usap...ass would have a BIG PROBLEM and most would expect a refund of goods and services not rendered by hired cba now called usapa!

Please reread the TA and all of it this time please...until then, you're just trying to blow smoke up someones tail pipe.

Otter

Otter,

You have always been very confident of the outcome of all of this. Do you have a time line in mind that you like to share? Just wondering.

 

[Freebird]

You keep saying failure but USAPA is still here and will be here.

And you will continue to FAIL.

-You will continue to be looked down upon by industry peers.
-You will continue to spin your wheels.
-You will continue to blame everyone else for your lot in life.


USAPA = Wasting your time and dues money.

 

[OTTER574]

Otter,

You have always been very confident of the outcome of all of this. Do you have a time line in mind that you like to share? Just wondering.

Time line is interesting in what you state. After today's hearing in front of Federal Judge Silver may be just the answer what usapa and company can and cannot do in regards to a LEGAL LIST ACCEPTED by lcc.

Please state where DELAY is in the almighty usapa cbl?

It's quickly coming to an end for usapa. The company along with many west and east pilots are not playing along with usapa's illegal DFR and the angry first officers club against west pilots.

Don't forget that the NMB will park usapa if it refuses to negotiate in good faith.

The company will do what ever they wish for a LEGAL JOINT CONTRACT.

Otter

 

[Freebird]

paragraph #1. Who in mgt said" they are tired of dealing with USAPA and its attempts to avoid arbitration".

paragraph#2." They put themselves into a DFR lawsuit" we filed the lawsuit?

paragraph#3. Your opinion only, it hasn't happened yet, no facts

paragraph#4 There is no west of east in this, its USAPA and the company.

paragraph#5 USAPA knows the facts all to well and LOA 93 is still better than the nic.

paragraph#6 Your predicting the outcome. not stating facts.

Freebird, on 08 February 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:
mikey60,

1. The company filed for a DJ. They arent impressed with USAPA and are growing tired of their antics.
2. Yes. USAPA put themselves into a position to get sued, i.e. DFR. No they did not file the lawsuit. They instead try to weasel out of Binding Arbitration. Wake up.
3. Paragraph 3. My opinion? Are you serious? Reread it;

USAPAs continued or future attempt to impose any senoirity list that hurts the minority (West) in favor of the majority (East) will become "DFR 2" and will be "Unquestionably Ripe" as stated by one of the 3 judges. 2 of the 3 judges dismissed due to ripeness only.

4. Yeah, thats why the company filed for the DJ. You should read the truth. You keep reading Theurs crap and drinking the Kleary Kool-Aid. You're in for a big disappointment.
5. Neener, Neener, Neener....is that all you have? Your DFR was dismissed on ripeness. Not merit.
6. Is predicting a crime? Your sister Sumard makes predictions all the time. Like the recent one where he predicts LOA93 Snapback will go in favor of the company.
I'm sure my "prediction" is the closest thing to the truth. You know it. Your Captains who are losing 40K a year know it. Cleary knows it. You're on the losing side.

So YES. Wednesday Judge Silver asked all parties involved into her courtroom. After LOA93 arbitration fails to produce snapback wages and keep the East pilots at an industy low and Judge Silver corrects both managment and USAPA for their inability to accept responsibility, USAPA should be a thing of the past.



Welcome. Yes there is.

USAirways management is tired of dealing with USAPA and its attepmts to avoid Binding Arbitration which the prior CBA (ALPA) and the East MEC entered into freely.

USAPA inherited all agreements and has subsequently tried (and failed) at imposing a Date of Hire senoirity list upon the West. They put themselves into a DFR (Duty of Fair Representation) lawsuit. They lost in court for failing to protect the interests of the minority (West pilots) who they are trying to harm. The case was appealled by USAPA and was dismissed by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeal on the grounds of ripeness, ONLY. The Merits of the case are strong however.

USAPAs continued or future attempt to impose any senoirity list that hurts the minority (West) in favor of the majority (East) will become "DFR 2" and will be "Unquestionably Ripe" as stated by one of the 3 judges. 2 of the 3 judges dismissed due to ripeness only.

Management is tired of USAPA's antics and has asked the court system for a Declaratory Judgment in the matter of whether of not they (Mgmt) must comply with the 3-party contract that they agreed to. The 3 way agreement between the West, East and managment was that they (mgmt) would agree to accept the Arbitrated senoirity list if it met certain conditions. It passed the test. The "Nicolau" award, through Binding Arbitration was accepted by managment as THE senoirity list.

USAPA has refused to accept the facts and have held all pilots and flight attendants hostage by keeping the wages low and benefits lower. They remain to stay on LOA93 which is a bankruptcy era agreement which hurts every East pilot. They seem to enjoy it. They also blame management and ALPA and anybody who will listen for the failure of their 'union'.

So YES. Wednesday Judge Silver asked all parties involved into her courtroom. After LOA93 arbitration fails to produce snapback wages and keep the East pilots at an industy low and Judge Silver corrects both managment and USAPA for their inability to accept responsibility, USAPA should be a thing of the past.

USAPA = Failing daily and losing steam.

 

[nevergiveup]

Time line is interesting in what you state. After today's hearing in front of Federal Judge Silver may be just the answer what usapa and company can and cannot do in regards to a LEGAL LIST ACCEPTED by lcc.

Please state where DELAY is in the almighty usapa cbl?

It's quickly coming to an end for usapa. The company along with many west and east pilots are not playing along with usapa's illegal DFR and the angry first officers club against west pilots.

Don't forget that the NMB will park usapa if it refuses to negotiate in good faith.

The company will do what ever they wish for a LEGAL JOINT CONTRACT.

Otter

If ALPA couldn't get you a contract with the NIC in it, why do you think USAPA can?

 

[Freebird]

If ALPA couldn't get you a contract with the NIC in it, why do you think USAPA can?

Cleary is afraid to allow the pilots to vote on a contract. Period.

If the company offered Delta pay for a contract with the NIC. It would pass. The East Captains making less than Jetblue, Spirit, Horizon, Allegiant, Alaska and SWA First Officers etc, will vote FOR a contract with the NIC.

East Captain "Hmmmmm, do I take $170 over my current $125 for the last years of my career? Or do I continue to support the AFO club?" Tough choice (Not). That's what the AFO club is afraid of. It's coming.


USAPA = Wheres the new contract?

 

[Pi brat]

Time line is interesting in what you state. After today's hearing in front of Federal Judge Silver may be just the answer what usapa and company can and cannot do in regards to a LEGAL LIST ACCEPTED by lcc.

Please state where DELAY is in the almighty usapa cbl?

It's quickly coming to an end for usapa. The company along with many west and east pilots are not playing along with usapa's illegal DFR and the angry first officers club against west pilots.

Don't forget that the NMB will park usapa if it refuses to negotiate in good faith.

The company will do what ever they wish for a LEGAL JOINT CONTRACT.

Otter

I'm sure that made sense to you, but it was a little hard for me to follow. I will just take that as a NO. Never mind, silly question.

 

[OTTER574]

If ALPA couldn't get you a contract with the NIC in it, why do you think USAPA can?

Show me the vote young man? never happened thanks to some east malcontents that think they can steal what they never brought to this merger by forming usapa.

A320 captain well north of $170 is what alpa had agreed upon with lcc prior to the east melt down that formed the uss titanic usapa.


Otter

 

[Pi brat]

Cleary is afraid to allow the pilots to vote on a contract. Period.

If the company offered Delta pay for a contract with the NIC. It would pass. The East Captains making less than Jetblue, Spirit, Horizon, Allegiant, Alaska and SWA First Officers etc, will vote FOR a contract with the NIC.

East Captain "Hmmmmm, do I take $170 over my current $125 for the last years of my career? Or do I continue to support the AFO club?" Tough choice (Not). That's what the AFO club is afraid of. It's coming.


USAPA = Wheres the new contract?

Do you guys not tune in to the Doug and Scooter Show? There is nothing to pass for a vote and they say we can't afford a DL contract. The west will not join USAPA in an effort to get a DL contract, so how is USAPA to send one out for a vote? Really?

 

[nic4us]

Freebird, on 08 February 2011 - 03:26 PM, said:

USAPAs continued or future attempt to impose any senoirity list that hurts the minority (West) in favor of the majority (East) will become "DFR 2" and will be "Unquestionably Ripe" as stated by one of the 3 judges. 2 of the 3 judges dismissed due to ripeness only.

Freebird,

You said this twice in your post, and I wanted to make sure you and I had the same understanding.

The "unquestionably ripe" quote was from Judge Tashima, writing the majority opinion, so in effect 2 Judges ruled not-ripe, but would be "unquestionably ripe", once a joint contract was passed.

Judge Bybee, the dissenting judge, held that the case was indeed ripe, just as Judge Wake had in the district court.


PS. I am starting to hear things about Judge Silver's courtroom today. Sounds like Seeham and the company both had lots of splainin to do, while the Addington cousel occasionally nodded and made clear their client's intent was to sue for any failure to use the Nic.