US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The most amazing thing of all, is it is right in front of everyone- that the Nic is not a requirement, and the fanatics continue to try and tell us that the NIC has to be! Unbelievable denial! Right from the 9th, and they still deny it! AWA 320 and clear, Nic4us are the most deep in denial. Reminds me of the fact when Custer and his men were found massacred at Little Big Horn, many of the 7th cavalry troopers were found to have had their eardrums peirced post mortum. Seems the victorious Indians had felt they had done them a favor, and pierced their eardrums so they would listen better in their next life. Custer had been warned time and again to not attack the summer convention of tribes, yet he did not listen and paid the price. The west fanatics still cannot face the fact ALPA was removed, and USAPA is the new bargaining agent. They continue to mount futile attack again and again, yet lose every battle. Their battle cry is the Nic. Their fate is loss, again and again...........

My eardrums have been pierced, not as a symbol regarding stuborness, but by 20,000 plus hours of jet noise. I may not be able to hear so well anymore, but I can still read, even if it requires glasses.

Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

That paragraph leaves open the possibility that usapa might actually abandon their DOH "proposal" in favor of something we can all live with. What Clear, AWA320 and myself are telling you is as long as usapa pursues DOH, the West is going to force the Nic. Further, at this point, usapa's only options are the Nic or something that benefits the West over and above the Nic.

The 9th is warning you, disadvantage the West, (i.e. use DOH) and the West has "unquestionably ripe DFR" to hang over your head. Oh, the company's head is on the chopping block with usapa's, because they read the same warning, difference is they get it, unlike the usapa faithful who are in denial.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I believe we have paid Mr. Seham about as much as you have

Well then, we could've both avoided enriching the lawyers' pockets by the East showing they have the integrity to abide by the arbitration.

 

[nic4us]

This is a perfect example of how a fanatic thinks! There is absolutely NO WAY a west pilot can fly the 330 in PHL, and these guys are lining up. No wonder Marty Harper takes you guys on those expensive rides! The disconnect from reality is unbelievable! There is a shuttle launch coming up soon too. Why don't you Clear and 320 take a drive down. I guarantee they will let you in on it!

I thought you guys said that even under D'OH, something to the tune of 137 West pilots could hold widebody????

Problem for Cleary is that under the Nic, we are coming to capture our 1/3 of the growth in the 330 fleet. That equates to staffing of what 3 330s right now that usapa has stolen.

 

[Crzipilot]

My eardrums have been pierced, not as a symbol regarding stuborness, but by 20,000 plus hours of jet noise. I may not be able to hear so well anymore, but I can still read, even if it requires glasses.

Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

That paragraph leaves open the possibility that usapa might actually abandon their DOH "proposal" in favor of something we can all live with. What Clear, AWA320 and myself are telling you is as long as usapa pursues DOH, the West is going to force the Nic. Further, at this point, usapa's only options are the Nic or something that benefits the West over and above the Nic.

The 9th is warning you, disadvantage the West, (i.e. use DOH) and the West has "unquestionably ripe DFR" to hang over your head. Oh, the company's head is on the chopping block with usapa's, because they read the same warning, difference is they get it, unlike the usapa faithful who are in denial.

Interesting that you inputted your own interpretation there (i.e. use DOH) just because you see it as a disadvantage, does not mean that it will meet the supreme courts definition of a DFR. Which I believe in all the court preceedings I have viewed, seems to be a bar set very very high.....

 

[CallawayGolf]

The most amazing thing of all, is it is right in front of everyone- that the Nic is not a requirement, and the fanatics continue to try and tell us that the NIC has to be! Unbelievable denial! Right from the 9th, and they still deny it! AWA 320 and clear, Nic4us are the most deep in denial. Reminds me of the fact when Custer and his men were found massacred at Little Big Horn, many of the 7th cavalry troopers were found to have had their eardrums peirced post mortum. Seems the victorious Indians had felt they had done them a favor, and pierced their eardrums so they would listen better in their next life. Custer had been warned time and again to not attack the summer convention of tribes, yet he did not listen and paid the price. The west fanatics still cannot face the fact ALPA was removed, and USAPA is the new bargaining agent.The 9th court of appeals CLEARLY states the Nic is NOT a requirement. The denial continues.The cries of harm are loud, again and again. The lawsuits over harm come flying. There is no harm. They press on to the Supreme Court. They are denied.They continue to mount futile attack again and again, yet lose every battle. Their battle cry is the Nic. Their fate is loss, again and again...........All because they cannot listen......

I don’t think the west is nearly as troubled by hearing/reading comprehension as the east. The list of those who understand that the NIC is not only alive, but stands as a significant impediment to the nefarious schemes of USAPA is long and distinguished – Parker, Kirby, Isom, Kerr, Bular, Hemenway, Johnson, and the rest of the officers and BOD I’m sure would hold this position. Add to this list the opinions and rulings of two federal judges who actually looked at the merits of this case (not just the ripeness question) and your claim that the west is deaf and ignorant of the facts is way off base. Judge Silver will weigh in sometime this year and I wouldn’t hold out much hope for east celebrations when she does.

As for the 9th and the majority ruling and opinions, these are most accurately viewed in the context of 1) Tashima and Graber didn’t evaluate the impact of the TA on this situation, and 2) their generic warnings were aimed directly at USAPA – i.e. you cannot negotiate a seniority system that harms the west without risking another DFR claim so whatever you do it cannot result in bringing the harm the west “fears”. Translation it either give the west the NIC or give them something that is more desirable than the NIC and USAPA might just avoid another DFR. Conversely, if USAPA takes seniority status from the west and gives it to the east – then their actions will be very ripe for another claim. Even in these warnings it is evident that Tashima and Graber failed to recognize the effect of the TA which is why Management filed the DJ because of the sizable gap between what the 9th said and what USAPA has been trying to push with regards to section 22.

This is far from over so you can stop projecting your failed understanding of the situation onto the west as if they are the ones who don’t get it. That distinction is mostly reserved for USAPA supporters. Comparing the west to Custer’s lack of situational awareness and connection to reality shows just how far gone many in the east really are.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Great Googlie Mooglie!!
The Mighty Marty “Harpie-r “ whacked by Judge “Rosylin” the ROD O’silver. Legal malpractice and professional negligence, Read on.

NO. CIV-04-1367 PHX ROS
ENERGEX ENTERPRISES, INC., a Colorado corporation; and BRAD GEUKE, an
individual, Plaintiffs,

vs.

SHUGHART, THOMSON & KILROY, P.C., a Missouri
professional corporation d/b/a SHUGHART THOMSON KILROY GOODWIN
RAUP; and, MARTY HARPER, EDWARD R. GLADY, JR., VICTORIA STEVENS,
and KELLY FLOOD, individuals, and BLACK & WHITE CORPORATIONS
I-X; and JOHN DOES I-X and JANE DOES I-X, Defendants. SHUGHART,
THOMSON & KILROY, P.C., a Missouri professional corporation d/b/a
SHUGHART THOMSON KILROY GOODWIN RAUP, Counterclaimant, vs. ENERGEX
ENTERPRISES, INC., a Colorado corporation, Counterdefendant.
NO. CIV-04-1367 PHX ROS

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
2006 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 58395

August 17, 2006, Decided

OPINION BY: Roslyn O. Silver

On July 2, 2004, Plaintiffs filed a Complaint against Defendants (Doc. # 1), followed by an Amended Complaint on October 7, 2004 (Doc. # 4). Plaintiffs allege two counts: professional negligence and breach of contract. Both counts are based on Defendants' representation for the settlement and drafting of the settlement agreement in the first civil action.

B. Causation
Defendants have moved for Partial Summary Judgment on Plaintiffs' legal malpractice claim. In order to
prove legal malpractice, Plaintiffs must establish "(1) the existence of an attorney-client relationship which imposes a duty on the attorney to exercise that degree of skill, care and knowledge commonly exercised by members of the profession, (2) breach of that duty, (3) that such negligence was a proximate cause of resulting injury, and (4) the fact and extent of the injury." Phillips v. Clancy, 152 Ariz. 415, 733 P.2d 300, 303 (Ariz. Ct. App. 1987). Plaintiffs claim that Defendants' negligent representation and negligent drafting of the settlement agreement caused them various damages including lost revenues, attorneys' fees, and emotional pain and suffering.

A. Legal Standard
Pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 12(c), after pleadings are closed any party may move for judgment on the pleadings. "A district court will render a judgment on the pleadings when the moving party clearly establishes on the face of the pleadings that no material issue of fact remains to be resolved and that it is entitled to judgment as a matter of law."

B. Breach of Contract
Defendants have moved for Judgment on the Pleadings regarding Claim II, the Breach of Contract claim.
(Doc. # 85) Under Arizona law, breach of the duties owed by attorneys to their clients arises out of tort, not contract. Barmat v. John & Jane Doe Partners, 155 Ariz. 519, 747 P.2d 1218, 1222 (Ariz. 1987) ("The cause of action for malpractice would exist even if the client or patient had expressly declined the professional's services."). A legal malpractice claim can only arise out of contract if there is evidence of a specific promise that was breached apart from the duty imposed by law.

OPINION AND ORDER
Pending before the Court is Defendants' Motion forPartial Summary Judgment (Doc. # 64), Defendants' Motion for Judgment on the Pleadings (Doc. # 85), and a number of [*2] procedural and evidentiary motions. For the following reasons, Defendants' Motion for Partial Summary Judgment will be denied and the Motion for Judgment on the Pleadings will be granted.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED trial is set for November 14, 2006 at 9 a.m.


DATED this 17th day of August, 2006.
Rosiyn O. Silver
United States District Judge



You can all bet your bippies that Marty didn’t go to trial.(Lexus Nexus has no trial record of this complaint.) They did a deal.
Ouch….that’s gotta hurt. Hey Marty…there goes an ambulance, fetch boy, fetch.

Have you helped MARTY pay this off yet! A call to energex was very enlightening!

 

[cleardirect]

*******************
what the F*** are you talking about? You need to go take a pill or something.

I just posted the retirements.. East and West over the next few years starting in 2012.

in the next 10 years 2483 pilots are leaving on the EAST.
You young guys own this place in 10 years...
DOH with CR until then..

Have you learned to read a chart, add numbers or admit your mistake yet?

From your own information starting 2011 to 2021, 10 tears is 1996 not 2483. Do you own a calculator?

8+144+201+179+227+237+259+255+238+248= Ask someone smarter than you.

 

[Black Swan]

News flash. You are still east pilots. The same pilots that agreed to the Nicolau are still the same east pilots that voted for usapa are still the same east pilots that are going to live under the Nicolau. Just because you change the name does not make the old group go away.

You east pilots still have the same obligation as you had before.

But I will play your game. If the east pilots are gone why are you still here?

Read the above. This is a perfect example of one whose reading comprehension continues to cause him trouble. The insisting of the Nicolau qualifies him for fanatic status.

 

[Black Swan]

I don’t think the west is nearly as troubled by hearing/reading comprehension as the east. The list of those who understand that the NIC is not only alive, but stands as a significant impediment to the nefarious schemes of USAPA is long and distinguished – Parker, Kirby, Isom, Kerr, Bular, Hemenway, Johnson, and the rest of the officers and BOD I’m sure would hold this position. Add to this list the opinions and rulings of two federal judges who actually looked at the merits of this case (not just the ripeness question) and your claim that the west is deaf and ignorant of the facts is way off base. Judge Silver will weigh in sometime this year and I wouldn’t hold out much hope for east celebrations when she does.

As for the 9th and the majority ruling and opinions, these are most accurately viewed in the context of 1) Tashima and Graber didn’t evaluate the impact of the TA on this situation, and 2) their generic warnings were aimed directly at USAPA – i.e. you cannot negotiate a seniority system that harms the west without risking another DFR claim so whatever you do it cannot result in bringing the harm the west “fears”. Translation it either give the west the NIC or give them something that is more desirable than the NIC and USAPA might just avoid another DFR. Conversely, if USAPA takes seniority status from the west and gives it to the east – then their actions will be very ripe for another claim. Even in these warnings it is evident that Tashima and Graber failed to recognize the effect of the TA which is why Management filed the DJ because of the sizable gap between what the 9th said and what USAPA has been trying to push with regards to section 22.

This is far from over so you can stop projecting your failed understanding of the situation onto the west as if they are the ones who don’t get it. That distinction is mostly reserved for USAPA supporters. Comparing the west to Custer’s lack of situational awareness and connection to reality shows just how far gone many in the east really are.

Parker, Isom, Kerr, Bular don't mean a damn thing. The 9th means everything. Are you going to tell me Bular overrules the 9th along with the rest? Suit up, take the guidon of the 7th. They are playing Garryowen. Move on out into history!

 

[cleardirect]

Parker, Isom, Kerr, Bular don't mean a damn thing. The 9th means everything. Are you going to tell me Bular overrules the 9th along with the rest? Suit up, take the guidon of the 7th. They are playing Garryowen. Move on out into history!

Clueless!!!!!

Those are the guys sitting on the other side of the table. The guys that you are trying to convince that it is OK to steal from the west. You have to get past those guys in order to get your dream. These are the same guys that read the ninth and understand what it says.

Those are the same guys that will be sitting in a court room for DFR II. Those are the guys that told a judge that the west won on the merits and they are afraid of losing a law suit if they give you DOH.

Time to figure out who you are playing.

 

[john john]

Where's your link that I was an ALPA rep

Were you an ALPA representative?

 

[CallawayGolf]

Parker, Isom, Kerr, Bular don't mean a damn thing. The 9th means everything. Are you going to tell me Bular overrules the 9th along with the rest? Suit up, take the guidon of the 7th. They are playing Garryowen. Move on out into history!

I guess Management doesn’t mean anything if you don't want a JCBA (which I'm sure most east pilots don't as they already know the NIC isn't dead). However if USAPA is going to get a JCBA, then they will need to negotiate every section of the contract to get it ready for ratification. If Management refuses to compromise on the NIC because they believe it would be a violation of the TA, then their opinions matter very much. Far more in fact that USAPA's opinion, especially since the NIC is the only legally defensible viewpoint.

Bular doesn’t overrule the 9th, but the 9th didn’t tell Bular (Management) to do anything with seniority or the NIC (which is why USAPA’s appeal on ripeness was only good for continued delay rather than resolving the issue). The 9th put this whole issue into limbo which isn’t at all what Management wanted. So Management elected to file the DJ rather than keep telling USAPA that they wouldn’t abandon the NIC. Like the rest of us, they know full well that USAPA would never let go of their dream of DOH until a court told them to accept the NIC and move on, something the 9th most certainly did not do. No one can predict how any judge will rule as this matter goes forward, but a court ordered dismantling of a perfectly legal, iron clad binding arbitration award would be a stretch for even the most left-leaning, anarchist judge USAPA might be lucky enough to find.

 

[AWA320]

My eardrums have been pierced, not as a symbol regarding stuborness, but by 20,000 plus hours of jet noise. I may not be able to hear so well anymore, but I can still read, even if it requires glasses.

Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

That paragraph leaves open the possibility that usapa might actually abandon their DOH "proposal" in favor of something we can all live with. What Clear, AWA320 and myself are telling you is as long as usapa pursues DOH, the West is going to force the Nic. Further, at this point, usapa's only options are the Nic or something that benefits the West over and above the Nic.

The 9th is warning you, disadvantage the West, (i.e. use DOH) and the West has "unquestionably ripe DFR" to hang over your head. Oh, the company's head is on the chopping block with usapa's, because they read the same warning, difference is they get it, unlike the usapa faithful who are in denial.

Preach on brother because BlackSwan has not heard you. Can the chruch say "AMEN"???

Wake up Swan you are choking yourself to death on LOA93 and we out here can breath just fine on the winds of status quo.

AWA320 says NO to UBS

 

[Black Swan]

Clueless!!!!!

Those are the guys sitting on the other side of the table. The guys that you are trying to convince that it is OK to steal from the west. You have to get past those guys in order to get your dream. These are the same guys that read the ninth and understand what it says.

Those are the same guys that will be sitting in a court room for DFR II. Those are the guys that told a judge that the west won on the merits and they are afraid of losing a law suit if they give you DOH.

Time to figure out who you are playing.

They will do exactly what the 9th said. And the 9th said USAPA is the bargaining agent, there is no requirement for the Nic. and your definition of harm exists in another dictionary than the one the rest of the universe uses. Easy to claim DFR and harm. Much harder to prove. Steal? Says you. The rest of the world thinks you don't yet comprehend you have another bargaining agent, and the Nic is not the template. Your harm will face the same scrutiny of the 9ths' findings and guidance. Not some harebrained idea thought of by pilots and their clueless attorneys who have filed and lost numerous claims of harm not realized.

 

[Black Swan]

Preach on brother because BlackSwan has not heard you. Can the chruch say "AMEN"???

Wake up Swan you are choking yourself to death on LOA93 and we out here can breath just fine on the winds of status quo.

AWA320 says NO to UBS

Hardly choking. Realizing that within most bad things, there is always hope. And in this case HOPE is a little diamond in the rough. And that little diamond is called LOA 93 discussion of LOA84 pay restoration. And that fine little unpolished nugget that you just don't see the value of and passed by has a certain date on it, Dec 31, 2009. And why on Gods' green earth would there even be a discussion of LOA84 pay rates, let alone the date, Dec 31, 2009 if there never was any intention of it EVER being an issue? Why would you even draw up a LOA that talks about it when you had no intention of even discussing it? Seems you and your esteemed leader Doug Parker feel the same way. You just don't even want to go there, because you know, in you heart of hearts, that in that LOA is some serious coin coming Eastward if Kasher sees fit..................Now you can go on and deny it, just like you deny the 9th and that you, are a USAPA member, just like the rest of your little brotherhood. That, is reality.