US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Crzipilot]

Quote from Mr. Nicolau: "... it cannot be disputed that there were differences in the financial condition of both carriers and that US Airways was the weaker. This necessarily means that career expectations differed and that US Airways pilots had more to gain from the merger than their new colleagues."

You guys just want more and more gain at the West's expense. You can count on the West continuing to oppose your tyranny.

We can cut and paste too.......what's the bill 2.8 million now????


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

3. We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the
Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was
its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the
Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA,
is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22.

Indeed, the Supreme Court case that clarified that the DFR
was applicable during contract negotiations articulated its
holding in terms that imply a claim can be brought only after
negotiations are complete and a “final product” has been
reached. See Air Line Pilots Ass’n, Int’l v. O’Neill, 499 U.S.
65, 78 (1991) (“[T]he final product of the bargaining process
may constitute evidence of a breach of duty only if it can be
fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’
that it is wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary.’ ” (quoting
Ford Motor Co. v. Huffman, 345 U.S. 330, 338 (1953))).

[5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA. Likewise, it is not certain whether that proposal
will be ratified by the USAPA membership as part of a new,
single CBA. Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is. Because these contingencies make the claim speculative,
the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.

 

[exB717Flyer]

We can cut and paste too.......what's the bill 2.8 million now????

How much have y'all paid $eham?

 

[Barrister]

How much have y'all paid $eham?

Answer: Not nearly enough!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Barrister]

We can cut and paste too.......what's the bill 2.8 million now????


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

3. We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the
Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was
its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the
Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA,
is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22.

Indeed, the Supreme Court case that clarified that the DFR
was applicable during contract negotiations articulated its
holding in terms that imply a claim can be brought only after
negotiations are complete and a “final product” has been
reached. See Air Line Pilots Ass’n, Int’l v. O’Neill, 499 U.S.
65, 78 (1991) (“[T]he final product of the bargaining process
may constitute evidence of a breach of duty only if it can be
fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’
that it is wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary.’ ” (quoting
Ford Motor Co. v. Huffman, 345 U.S. 330, 338 (1953))).

[5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA. Likewise, it is not certain whether that proposal
will be ratified by the USAPA membership as part of a new,
single CBA. Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is. Because these contingencies make the claim speculative,
the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.

Thanks for posting that....it re-affirms that there has to be a CBA
in place....or NOTHING HAPPENS......Parker could downsize PHX and put
500 of you on the street (not wanting that of course as I have said before
I hold not one single West pilot at fault for NIC) and YOU HAVE NO REMEDY.
No DFR II until a CBA voted on and passed.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[cleardirect]

Answer: Not nearly enough!!

NICDOA
NPJB

Don't worry than. You will have a chance to spend a lot more.

How much is enough? How much is to much?

When you bid under the Nicolau will it have been to much?

 

[nic4us]

Jim, our furloughees do not want to take from the west at all. They just want the natural career progression they would of had without the NIC.
remember the attrition is 75% EAST?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your intentions are to not harm the West. However, the problem lies in your desire to unilaterally determine what your career progression would have looked like absent the merger.

Well, your furloughees can easily attain their non-Nic/non-merged career progression without all this hassle.

Simply quit, and put yourself back on the street were you would have stayed absent the merger.

Under the Nic, your furloughees get to capture 2/3rds of the east attrition plus 2/3rds of West attrition.

Has it ever occured to any east poster that absent the east attrition numbers, Nicolau probably would have constructed the list in a manner much closer to that asked for by the West negotiators.

 

[Crzipilot]

I believe we have paid Mr. Seham about as much as you have If your current of course....

 

[nic4us]

You'll probably be retired by the time you see 330's in PHX, keep dreaming....

That is why I will be biding 330 CLT. Got to keep Cleary from stealing the growth aircraft the merger brought.

 

[aquagreen73s]

That is why I will be biding 330 CLT. Got to keep Cleary from stealing the growth aircraft the merger brought.

Are you sure? I checked and it seemed the PHL lines are better. No?

 

[nic4us]

I believe we have paid Mr. Seham about as much as you have If your current of course....

West MIGs and fee payers pay usapa and therefore Seeham in dollar$. It is only money!! and in the long run we will get it back.

East usapa supporters pay Seeham by giving up something of much greater value. Something they will never get back.

 

[AWA320]

Don't worry than. You will have a chance to spend a lot more.

How much is enough? How much is to much?

When you bid under the Nicolau will it have been to much?

You know nothing will hit home like that will. Oh I can not wait for them to find out that binding means binding in every language. Sehams children will go to Harvard on the backs of the east and that dumb position they have taken. Oh and the blames game? That's going to be worth the price of admission to view, better even than east female flight attendant mud wresteling

AWA320 says NO to UBS's you already know the names

 

[nic4us]

Are you sure? I checked and it seemed the PHL lines are better. No?

Maybe, I really have not looked at either.

All I know is that I detest commuting and after many years in the desert I can no longer live much north of 35 degrees lattitude.

Cleary would be much better off if they put some 330s in PHX, problem is east guys senior to me will bid them. There are already 330 pilots living in PHX.

 

[Black Swan]

We can cut and paste too.......what's the bill 2.8 million now????


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

3. We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the
Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recognized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was
its predecessor, ALPA. The dissent appears implicitly to assume that the
Nicolau Award, the product of the internal rules and processes of ALPA,
is binding on USAPA. See Diss op. at 8021-22.

Indeed, the Supreme Court case that clarified that the DFR
was applicable during contract negotiations articulated its
holding in terms that imply a claim can be brought only after
negotiations are complete and a “final product” has been
reached. See Air Line Pilots Ass’n, Int’l v. O’Neill, 499 U.S.
65, 78 (1991) (“[T]he final product of the bargaining process
may constitute evidence of a breach of duty only if it can be
fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’
that it is wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary.’ ” (quoting
Ford Motor Co. v. Huffman, 345 U.S. 330, 338 (1953))).

[5] We conclude that this case presents contingencies that
could prevent effectuation of USAPA’s proposal and the
accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots
nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately
will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of
a final CBA. Likewise, it is not certain whether that proposal
will be ratified by the USAPA membership as part of a new,
single CBA. Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is. Because these contingencies make the claim speculative,
the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.

The most amazing thing of all, is it is right in front of everyone- that the Nic is not a requirement, and the fanatics continue to try and tell us that the NIC has to be! Unbelievable denial! Right from the 9th, and they still deny it! AWA 320 and clear, Nic4us are the most deep in denial. Reminds me of the fact when Custer and his men were found massacred at Little Big Horn, many of the 7th cavalry troopers were found to have had their eardrums peirced post mortum. Seems the victorious Indians had felt they had done them a favor, and pierced their eardrums so they would listen better in their next life. Custer had been warned time and again to not attack the summer convention of tribes, yet he did not listen and paid the price. The west fanatics still cannot face the fact ALPA was removed, and USAPA is the new bargaining agent.The 9th court of appeals CLEARLY states the Nic is NOT a requirement. The denial continues.The cries of harm are loud, again and again. The lawsuits over harm come flying. There is no harm. They press on to the Supreme Court. They are denied.They continue to mount futile attack again and again, yet lose every battle. Their battle cry is the Nic. Their fate is loss, again and again...........All because they cannot listen......

 

[prechilill]

Are you sure? I checked and it seemed the PHL lines are better. No?

PHL lines have more variety and they've got the TLV pairings. Those seem to be pretty good ones and you only fly three a month- definitely worth setting your sights on those...

 

[Black Swan]

PHL lines have more variety and they've got the TLV pairings. Those seem to be pretty good ones and you only fly three a month- definitely worth setting your sights on those...

This is a perfect example of how a fanatic thinks! There is absolutely NO WAY a west pilot can fly the 330 in PHL, and these guys are lining up. No wonder Marty Harper takes you guys on those expensive rides! The disconnect from reality is unbelievable! There is a shuttle launch coming up soon too. Why don't you Clear and 320 take a drive down. I guarantee they will let you in on it!