US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Mind if I steal you line? Tick Tock Tick Tock nic4us.

You were looking for a date.

Lets say I go to a store that has a 90 day return policy. On Jan 1st I buy a very nice 48" LCD TV, and bring it home for a superbowl party. I invite over friends, watch the game and on Feb 28th return the TV, and get my money back. The next day, March 1st, I buy another one, that I return on April 30th. May 1st, I buy another, keep it until July, and again get my money back.

Have I ever "stolen" the TV? Does the store ever have the right to deny me a sale? It is clear I am improperly getting the use of the TVs without paying for them, my only cost is no interest on my money that I am letting the store hold, instead of the bank, while I use their TVs and greatly decrease their value. I am exploiting the stores return policy in a mannner in which it was not intended.

In the same way, by delaying joint contract implementation, usapa is exploiting the operational pilot integration clause of the TA. But on what day do they actual "steal" West pilot jobs?

In my example with the TVs, I would say I "stole" the TV on Jan 1st, the day I first implemented the return scam.

With regards to usapa, It is a little harder to put a date on it. Was it during the campaign? Was it the election date? Was it when the east walked out of joint contract negotiations? Was it when West pilots started getting furloughed out of seniority order because of seperate ops?

But you asked on what date would a joint contract that would have implemented the Nic award been ratified by the pilot group. Tough question, impossible to answere really. Because the east keeps returning the arbitrated award, using their majority status to get their money back. Eventually, the store (the court) is going to inform usapa that while they sat at home enjoying their TV(seperate ops), the return policy was changed to 30 days and they bought the TV(the Nic).
 
Yes they did. Through East attrition. Certainly NOTHING the west has done has created ANY jobs on this property, East or west.
The east furloughs did not bring attrition. The east furloughs expect the attrition of those leaving.

Attrition does not create jobs. Attrition is simply replacing a job that currently exists. Growth is the only thing that creates jobs. When was the last time the east grew?
 
Than you would not mind contacting the BPR and telling them to pay for a separate NAC filled with west pilots and we can negotiate our own contract. How about this. Separate ops forever, separate unions. You guys would not mind splitting and you run yours and we will run ours.

I don't think we would mind that at all, but I don't know if it is even possible to "unring the bell" of the NMB finding that both groups are one bargaining unit. That was an unfortunate occurrence in retrospect. Seems we have had lots of those in the past, mostly at the hands of ALPA, and our respective (not respectable) MECs.

If you want separate, let's be separate. If you want a fence, let's have a fence.

Yes! Now you've got it! That's basically USAPA's position, only they call it "Conditions and Restrictions."
 
We are not saying furloughs are not worth anything we are saying that did not bring a job.

And there in lies the crux of the problem.

Those pilots MOST certainly did bring jobs to the merger; they had jobs waiting for them due to attrition. They and their families have sacrificed 20 times what you have for this company.

The AWA pilot group saw this as a tremendous opportunity to steal jobs from US Airways East pilots, and dramatically increase not only their protection from the furlough that everyone knew was inevitable for the AWA pilot group, but to quadruple their upgrade to captain rate - all at the expense of the US Airways pilots.

Only in the inbred and corrupt world of ALPA politics is this even considered a reasonable outcome.

Fortunately the AWA pilot group theft of jobs has been stopped cold, and will continue to be so. One thing that the AWA pilot group has completely misread is the resolve of the US Airways East pilots to prevent their seniority from being stolen. It runs FAR deeper than the few that post here. Believe....

Boeing Driver
 
And there in lies the crux of the problem.

Those pilots MOST certainly did bring jobs to the merger; they had jobs waiting for them due to attrition. They and their families have sacrificed 20 times what you have for this company.

The AWA pilot group saw this as a tremendous opportunity to steal jobs from US Airways East pilots, and dramatically increase not only their protection from the furlough that everyone knew was inevitable for the AWA pilot group, but to quadruple their upgrade to captain rate - all at the expense of the US Airways pilots.

Only in the inbred and corrupt world of ALPA politics is this even considered a reasonable outcome.

Fortunately the AWA pilot group theft of jobs has been stopped cold, and will continue to be so. One thing that the AWA pilot group has completely misread is the resolve of the US Airways East pilots to prevent their seniority from being stolen. It runs FAR deeper than the few that post here. Believe....

Boeing Driver
Attrition is not a job. It is a replacement. If someone is in the hiring pool do they have a job or just the promise of a job?

Did the west pilots create the list? Were the east pilots involved in the process?

The west is not trying to steal anything. We are only trying to enforce what both sides agreed to.
 
And there in lies the crux of the problem.

Those pilots MOST certainly did bring jobs to the merger; they had jobs waiting for them due to attrition. They and their families have sacrificed 20 times what you have for this company.

The AWA pilot group saw this as a tremendous opportunity to steal jobs from US Airways East pilots, and dramatically increase not only their protection from the furlough that everyone knew was inevitable for the AWA pilot group, but to quadruple their upgrade to captain rate - all at the expense of the US Airways pilots.

Only in the inbred and corrupt world of ALPA politics is this even considered a reasonable outcome.

Fortunately the AWA pilot group theft of jobs has been stopped cold, and will continue to be so. One thing that the AWA pilot group has completely misread is the resolve of the US Airways East pilots to prevent their seniority from being stolen. It runs FAR deeper than the few that post here. Believe....

Boeing Driver


The crux of the problem is there are east pilots soooo far out there, (see above post) that they think their opinion trumps a final and binding arbitration.

Who was the usapa moron who claimed the usapa CB&Ls "trump federal law"? James (I couldn't pass training at CAL, even during a strike) Ray, immortalizes his ignorance by telling the CLT media that the seniority dispute is settled. Mike (I single handedly rescued everyone from the backscatter machines) Cleary, makes a fool of himself in front of all the other employees' union reps and company executives, when shows how little he understands of his own situation and the situation the east pilots he represents are in, and calls the CEO a liar. Scott (USA Today add) Thuer, no comment at all on this POS.

Out of time, will continue the list later
 
give it a break NIC 4US...

why should your new hire get teh job that hte east position is creating.. In fact why should your west new hires get all those positions?

The NIC is dead and I don't see it coming to a place near you anytime soon.
 
The east furloughs did not bring attrition. The east furloughs expect the attrition of those leaving.

Attrition does not create jobs. Attrition is simply replacing a job that currently exists. Growth is the only thing that creates jobs. When was the last time the east grew?


Must be clear's week to be on duty on this board...

keep your west attrition and we will keep our east.. they you can have a deal..
other than that, we will live with LOA 93 and no new contract.
but we will enjoy our upgrades as east attrition hits high gear

Your choice
 
give it a break NIC 4US...

why should your new hire get teh job that hte east position is creating.. In fact why should your west new hires get all those positions?

The NIC is dead and I don't see it coming to a place near you anytime soon.
All the positions? The Nicolau is ratioed at 2/3 of the positions. 2out of 3 go to the east. The truth will set you free.
 
give it a break NIC 4US...

why should your new hire get teh job that hte east position is creating.. In fact why should your west new hires get all those positions?

The NIC is dead and I don't see it coming to a place near you anytime soon.

Ask the arbitrator. It is easy, just read the decision.

He will explain that his award is a ratioed integration that equitably distributes opportunities moving forward.

The Nic is hardly dead. When or if it dies, so does the east pipedream of reneging on binding arbitration.
 
Must be clear's week to be on duty on this board...

keep your west attrition and we will keep our east.. they you can have a deal..
other than that, we will live with LOA 93 and no new contract.
but we will enjoy our upgrades as east attrition hits high gear

Your choice

Thanks for pointing that out junior.

Here is my question though. How do you enjoy an upgrade, when you have already upgraded?

Enjoy your upgrade. It comes a few months earlier at the expense of those who have already upgraded and will pay the LOA93 sacrifice so that you can massage your four stripe ego on low pay.

But, by all means, keep up the good work. Your stalling has given me C&Rs without DOH. My toughest decision now is do I want to work on one of my 5 weeks of vacation and get a little cash back, to get paid like NYCbusdriver? Naw....I like only working 7 full months out of the year, less if I actually use any sick time.
 
Looking at the bid published today, was that an increase in 25 330 and 7i Capts plus about 68 f/o to blockholder positions? For may! JAMIE, JJ, JG ,MM!
 
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