US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

It is. No doubt about it.

Please don't ask me to clean up your (east) mess when you and your usapa union pilots take a dump. You make your own bed..by all means, please lie in it!

Otter

 

[luvthe9]

Oh wait! I'll take FAILED ATTEMPTS TO BULLY MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN UNION for a thousand dollars, Alex

Answer: What is USAPA's FAILED attempt to sue the "Cactus 18" which in fact was 24+ pilots PLUS 100 John Doe pilots (to be named later)? Alex, this case was dismissed WITH PREJUDICE at first. USAPA decided to mis-spend more of their union's dues money in an attempt to appeal the dismissed case. The US Court of Appeals UPHELD the dismissal WITH PREJUDICE.

According to USAPA insiders, they are refusing to "let it go" and apologize for putting the former AWA pilots through this event. They intend to "hold the hammer over the heads" of the RICO litigants as a deterrent, claiming they have in their possession the "rocks & human feces" along with other evidence.

You know, nothing says "LOVE" like suing your own pilots with their own money. Real men of genius. :blink:

Just another battle in the long, long war. Kind of like the north slowly grinding away the south in the Civil War. You might get a few wins, but they cost you very big. In the end? You will run out of Leonidas cash. The wives have got to be screaming about those high level badge backer pay pal withdraws. One badge backer over the line sweet Jesus..........One can only imagine the despair if the East gets a win from Kasher.

 

[OTTER574]

It is. No doubt about it.

Question to you oldie since you seem to be in the typing mood?

What if parker called mike cleary today and stated we've reviewed our legal position. Since we/lcc stated under oath that we've accepted the legal list known has the George Nicolau award. That's our S22 pilot group list going forward mike.

What would the almighty usapa do?

Otter

 

[Black Swan]

Question to you oldie since you seem to be in the typing mood?

What if parker called mike cleary today and stated we've reviewed our legal position. Since we/lcc stated under oath that we've accepted the legal list known has the George Nicolau award. That's our S22 pilot group list going forward mike.

What would the almighty usapa do?

Otter

USAPA wouldn't have to do a damn thing. The NMB would do it for USAPA. Parker is too smart to do it. Hence the FAMOUS quote- 'THIS IS FOR YOU GUYS TO DECIDE" Even Wake was smart enough to back off in the famous Addington DEBACLE. I loved the part when he was going for broke and almost, almost imposed the Nicolau, or thought he could.Anybody familiar with the case was secretly begging him to do it, praying for him to do it because he would have looked like the real idiot he was proven to be a lot sooner than when the law clerks in the 9th tore his britches off and embarassed the daylights out of him. He was brought up short on his leash when he was admonished with the legal warning- "YOU WILL HAVE NMB LAWYERS PARACHUTING INTO YOUR COURTROOM!!!" Parker had it all figured out way ahead of Wake. Parker knows where he stands. He knows who his bargaining agent is, and it certainly isn't ALPA, and the ALPA product called the NICOLAU. He is going to be a patient little CEO and take what his bargaining agent gives him. And it isn't going to EVER be the Nicolau List......The only ones who play these stupid daydreamy games that have no legal standing or NMB sanctioning are Leonidas members. It is just a stupid little fantasy

 

[OTTER574]

Just another battle in the long, long war. Kind of like the north slowly grinding away the south in the Civil War. You might get a few wins, but they cost you very big. In the end? You will run out of Leonidas cash. The wives have got to be screaming about those high level badge backer pay pal withdraws. One badge backer over the line sweet Jesus..........One can only imagine the despair if the East gets a win from Kasher.

AOL payments.....I treat it like my water bill..


As far as Kasher..that wet dream is loooooong gone.

Otter

 

[OTTER574]

Parker is too smart to do it. Hence the FAMOUS quote- 'THIS IS FOR YOU GUYS TO DECIDE" Even Wake was smart enough to back off in the famous Addington DEBACLE. I loved the part when he was going for broke and almost, almost imposed the Nicolau, or thought he could. He was brought up short on his leash when he was admonished with the legal warning- "YOU WILL HAVE NMB LAWYERS PARACHUTING INTO YOUR COURTROOM!!!" Parker had it all figured out way ahead of Wake. Parker knows where he stands. He knows who his bargaining agent is, and it certainly isn't ALPA, and the ALPA product called the NICOLAU. He is going to be a patient little CEO and take what his bargaining agent gives him. And it isn't going to EVER be the Nicolau List......

The company will not entertain usapa's ILLEGAL position/list.

Good luck flyboy.

Otter

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Question to you oldie since you seem to be in the typing mood?

What if parker called mike cleary today and stated we've reviewed our legal position. Since we/lcc stated under oath that we've accepted the legal list known has the George Nicolau award. That's our S22 pilot group list going forward mike.

What would the almighty usapa do?

Otter

Well, first of all, it isn't gonna happen. I suspect that if the company announced that they were refusing to negotiate with the LEGAL representatives of the pilot group that USAPA would IMMEDIATELY approach the NMB about being released from negotiations to enter self-help, without a cooling off period. I ALSO opine that they would file suit in district court, citing the opinion of the Ninth circuit and affirmed by the US Supreme Court, that the company is NOT bound by the NIC, and USAPA IS NOT bound to use it as a bargaining position.

I am awaiting the opinion on the DJ. If it is dismissed, the company has said they would appeal, but it puts the ball into USAPA's court. If USAPA wins, which I think is slightly less likely than a dismissal, it's still all over. If the West wins, I expect an appeal since it is TOTALLY against current labor laws AND precedent. I also expect, in the case of an appeal, that other labor organizations, including ALPA will back the position of USAPA, since anything else weakens their ability to negotiate.

That's it in a nutshell.

The company KNOWS they would LOSE BIG TIME.

 

[cleardirect]

USAPA wouldn't have to do a damn thing. The NMB would do it for USAPA. Parker is too smart to do it. Hence the FAMOUS quote- 'THIS IS FOR YOU GUYS TO DECIDE" Even Wake was smart enough to back off in the famous Addington DEBACLE. I loved the part when he was going for broke and almost, almost imposed the Nicolau, or thought he could.Anybody familiar with the case was secretly begging him to do it, praying for him to do it because he would have looked like the real idiot he was proven to be a lot sooner than when the law clerks in the 9th tore his britches off and embarassed the daylights out of him. He was brought up short on his leash when he was admonished with the legal warning- "YOU WILL HAVE NMB LAWYERS PARACHUTING INTO YOUR COURTROOM!!!" Parker had it all figured out way ahead of Wake. Parker knows where he stands. He knows who his bargaining agent is, and it certainly isn't ALPA, and the ALPA product called the NICOLAU. He is going to be a patient little CEO and take what his bargaining agent gives him. And it isn't going to EVER be the Nicolau List......The only ones who play these stupid daydreamy games that have no legal standing or NMB sanctioning are Leonidas members. It is just a stupid little fantasy

Really? First usapa is not his bargaining agent. usapa is the pilots bargaining agent.

Second. Has he taken anything usapa has given him so far? How are those pay rates coming? Line bidding a done deal yet? East pilots have crew meals?

He does not and will not just take whatever usapa gives him.

 

[Black Swan]

The company will not entertain usapa's ILLEGAL position/list.

Good luck flyboy.

Otter

Give us FACTUAL backing for your statement that it is ILLEGAL. You can't and we and Parker know it. Parker will take the list USAPA gives him or he will have the NMB right up his tailpipe and he knows it.

 

[OTTER574]

Well, first of all, it isn't gonna happen. I suspect that if the company announced that they were refusing to negotiate with the LEGAL representatives of the pilot group that USAPA would IMMEDIATELY approach the NMB about being released from negotiations to enter self-help, without a cooling off period. I ALSO opine that they would file suit in district court, citing the opinion of the Ninth circuit and affirmed by the US Supreme Court, that the company is NOT bound by the NIC, and USAPA IS NOT bound to use it as a bargaining position.

I am awaiting the opinion on the DJ. If it is dismissed, the company has said they would appeal, but it puts the ball into USAPA's court. If USAPA wins, which I think is slightly less likely than a dismissal, it's still all over. If the West wins, I expect an appeal since it is TOTALLY against current labor laws AND precedent. I also expect, in the case of an appeal, that other labor organizations, including ALPA will back the position of USAPA, since anything else weakens their ability to negotiate.

That's it in a nutshell.

The company KNOWS they would LOSE BIG TIME.

The company has accepted a LEGAL list oldie...By all means take this to the NMB and get parked indefinitely. The NMB is not usapa's BABY SITTER!

Otter

 

[Black Swan]

Really? First usapa is not his bargaining agent. usapa is the pilots bargaining agent.

Second. Has he taken anything usapa has given him so far? How are those pay rates coming? Line bidding a done deal yet? East pilots have crew meals?

He does not and will not just take whatever usapa gives him.

Who wants the crew meals anyway? We LOVE our bidding system. That is why they want your crap system. Does the company EVER want the system that is best for the pilots? They have been trying for years to get our system away along with the bid sheet and give us your crap system. No thanks to that either. The pay rates? As we said dear friend, we are waiting on KASHER. We don't expect to get them from anybody except Kasher anyhow. We don't even need Parker in that department right now. We are all doing just fine with our pay. As much as you fly them out there, the truth is you have the lowest paid 75 drivers out there, and no chance of anything above the 320 rate.

 

[luvthe9]

The company has accepted a LEGAL list oldie...By all means take this to the NMB and get parked indefinitely. The NMB is not usapa's BABY SITTER!

Otter

Seems to me if Parker accepted it we'd be using it by now, just remember what Dougie said "this is for you guys to decide". You westies need to get over it sign a contract and then sue if you have any money left over for that crack law team you have.

 

[Black Swan]

AOL payments.....I treat it like my water bill..


As far as Kasher..that wet dream is loooooong gone.

Otter

Nothing like a guy in the desert being cavalier about water when Lake Mead slowly recedes................Very understandable now how you like flushing money Marty Harpers way!

 

[OTTER574]

Give us FACTUAL backing for your statement that it is ILLEGAL. You can't and we and Parker know it. Parker will take the list USAPA gives him or he will have the NMB right up his tailpipe and he knows it.

TA == a CONTRACT.

Please read it and review it.

NMB stands for NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD and they will park usapa.

Otter

 

[cleardirect]

Well, first of all, it isn't gonna happen. I suspect that if the company announced that they were refusing to negotiate with the LEGAL representatives of the pilot group that USAPA would IMMEDIATELY approach the NMB about being released from negotiations to enter self-help, without a cooling off period. I ALSO opine that they would file suit in district court, citing the opinion of the Ninth circuit and affirmed by the US Supreme Court, that the company is NOT bound by the NIC, and USAPA IS NOT bound to use it as a bargaining position.

I am awaiting the opinion on the DJ. If it is dismissed, the company has said they would appeal, but it puts the ball into USAPA's court. If USAPA wins, which I think is slightly less likely than a dismissal, it's still all over. If the West wins, I expect an appeal since it is TOTALLY against current labor laws AND precedent. I also expect, in the case of an appeal, that other labor organizations, including ALPA will back the position of USAPA, since anything else weakens their ability to negotiate.

That's it in a nutshell.

The company KNOWS they would LOSE BIG TIME.

Are you new to the airline industry? Have you ever heard of the NMB releasing the 2 parties without a 30 day cooling off period?

But using your logic (or lack of it) If usapa refuses to negotiate anything other than DOH will the NMB release usapa or will they park usapa?

DOH is a hard line stand for you east guys. C&R are not negotiations. The DOH list and refusing to move away from that is not negotiating in good faith.
Better get your own house in order before you start throwing stones.

You need to explain this. If the company appeals the dismissal nothing changes. The company still does not know what it can or can not do legally. How in the world does that put the ball in usapa's court? the company is not all of a sudden going to say oh OK you can have what you want now. You really think that ALPA will come to the aid and defense of usapa? You guys also said that ALPA and other labor groups would show up at the ninth for usapa too. We all saw that did not happen.

Keep dreaming old man.