US Pilots Labor Discussion

[OTTER574]

Seems to me if Parker accepted it we'd be using it by now, just remember what Dougie said "this is for you guys to decide". You westies need to get over it sign a contract and then sue if you have any money left over for that crack law team you have.

Please, by all means get parker to go along with usapa's illegal actions.....Crew news parker also stated that usapa out and out lies...is that correct luv? I think a federal judge stated something similar about usapa's lawyer lee seham..

Otter

 

[cleardirect]

Seems to me if Parker accepted it we'd be using it by now, just remember what Dougie said "this is for you guys to decide". You westies need to get over it sign a contract and then sue if you have any money left over for that crack law team you have.

Kind of makes the usapa spokesman a liar than doesn't it. He told the world that the seniority dispute of over. You say we get to decide. Guess the dispute still goes on.

Check your facts.

The west pilots cannot sign a contract. That would be usapa. You guys have told us many times that you don't need the west for anything. You can get a contract on your own. Get to it. Convince Parker to walk away from a legal contract. Have him go back on his word of the joint letter with Lakefield. . Put a contract our for a vote, pass it with east vote and have your president sign it. Get him sued.

What's the problem? What are you waiting for?

 

[OTTER574]

Nothing like a guy in the desert being cavalier about water when Lake Mead slowly recedes................Very understandable now how you like flushing money Marty Harpers way!

What difference does it make where I choose to live BS? BTW, I never said I live in a desert.

I hear there's a lot of Florida and Gulf Coast homes on the market for pennies on the dollar...maybe you own one of them??.. Seems a lot of east commuters ride my jump seat to and from Florida/Gulf Coast.

Otter

 

[luvthe9]

TA == a CONTRACT.

Please read it and review it.

NMB stands for NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD and they will park usapa.

Otter

Bargaining Agent=USAPA. FORMER BARGAINING AGENT=ALPA. FORMER SENIORITY PROPOSAL=NICOLAU LIST, PRODUCT OF FORMER BARGAINING AGENT-ALPA. Was the ALPA list accepted? NO. Can it be accepted? Not unless USAPA sanctions it. Is USAPA bound by the FORMER BARGAINING ENTITY ALPA? ABSOLUTELY NOT( 9th court of appeals S.F.)

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Are you new to the airline industry? Have you ever heard of the NMB releasing the 2 parties without a 30 day cooling off period?

But using your logic (or lack of it) If usapa refuses to negotiate anything other than DOH will the NMB release usapa or will they park usapa?

DOH is a hard line stand for you east guys. C&R are not negotiations. The DOH list and refusing to move away from that is not negotiating in good faith.
Better get your own house in order before you start throwing stones.

You need to explain this. If the company appeals the dismissal nothing changes. The company still does not know what it can or can not do legally. How in the world does that put the ball in usapa's court? the company is not all of a sudden going to say oh OK you can have what you want now. You really think that ALPA will come to the aid and defense of usapa? You guys also said that ALPA and other labor groups would show up at the ninth for usapa too. We all saw that did not happen.

Keep dreaming old man.

Been here a long time, young pup! This is a TOTALLY unique situation. There has NEVER been a case where the company REFUSED to negotiate with a LEGAL representative before.

You guys have already lost. You really need to get a grip.

I read the crap about crew meals. I don't eat airline food unless I absolutley have no choice. I wonder what happened to all the frozen Monte Christos?

 

[OTTER574]

Well, first of all, it isn't gonna happen. I suspect that if the company announced that they were refusing to negotiate with the LEGAL representatives of the pilot group that USAPA would IMMEDIATELY approach the NMB about being released from negotiations to enter self-help, without a cooling off period. I ALSO opine that they would file suit in district court, citing the opinion of the Ninth circuit and affirmed by the US Supreme Court, that the company is NOT bound by the NIC, and USAPA IS NOT bound to use it as a bargaining position.

I am awaiting the opinion on the DJ. If it is dismissed, the company has said they would appeal, but it puts the ball into USAPA's court. If USAPA wins, which I think is slightly less likely than a dismissal, it's still all over. If the West wins, I expect an appeal since it is TOTALLY against current labor laws AND precedent. I also expect, in the case of an appeal, that other labor organizations, including ALPA will back the position of USAPA, since anything else weakens their ability to negotiate.

That's it in a nutshell.

The company KNOWS they would LOSE BIG TIME.

“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.” (Ninth Op., FN1. p.8008).

Please, by all means elaborate oldie.

Otter

 

[OTTER574]

Been here a long time, young pup! This is a TOTALLY unique situation. There has NEVER been a case where the company REFUSED to negotiate with a LEGAL representative before.

You guys have already lost. You really need to get a grip.

I read the crap about crew meals. I don't eat airline food unless I absolutley have no choice. I wonder what happened to all the frozen Monte Christos?

Oldie, the company is not refusing to negotiate...It doens't want to break the law along with usapa.

Otter

 

[luvthe9]

“By deferring judicial intervention, we leave USAPA to bargain in good faith pursuant to its DFR, with the interests of all members — both East and West — in mind, under pain of an unquestionably ripe DFR suit, once a contract is ratified.” (Ninth Op., FN1. p.8008).

Please, by all means elaborate oldie.

Otter

What are you guys afraid of? if you so sure about your next DFR sign the DOH contract and file you have know other option. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF????

 

[OTTER574]

Been here a long time, young pup! This is a TOTALLY unique situation. There has NEVER been a case where the company REFUSED to negotiate with a LEGAL representative before.

You guys have already lost. You really need to get a grip.

I read the crap about crew meals. I don't eat airline food unless I absolutley have no choice. I wonder what happened to all the frozen Monte Christos?

It's a unique situation because malcontents out east make it so and parker fuels it with his crew news charm...

Otter

 

[cleardirect]

Been here a long time, young pup! This is a TOTALLY unique situation. There has NEVER been a case where the company REFUSED to negotiate with a LEGAL representative before.

You guys have already lost. You really need to get a grip.

I read the crap about crew meals. I don't eat airline food unless I absolutley have no choice. I wonder what happened to all the frozen Monte Christos?

Oh you are right there. Never in the history has a group refused to abide by binding arbitration. So you think in our TOTALLY unique situation the NMB is going to bypass the cooling off period and give the people that refuse to abide by their agreement and steal from the other side a free pass and release them?????

Did the company not show up to the table last week? IT is usapa that has refused to negotiate with the company. Have you guys got another position besides DOH?

If we already lost why are we still in court?

Get used to the crew meal comment. It was your union that compared seniority to crew meals. Live with it.

 

[OTTER574]

What are you guys afraid of? if you so sure about your next DFR sign the DOH contract and file you have know other option. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF????

Boy young man...Maybe I just just woke up like you.... What contract are you talking about? A quote from scott kirby.."We'll never have a pilot contract with usapa!"

Otter

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Oldie, the company is not refusing to negotiate...It doens't want to break the law along with usapa.

Otter

That, youngster, was a response to a "what if" question. Please try to follow along. I've already explained here MANY times why you have already lost. Tantrums won't help, nor will quoting court opinions out of context.

I can understand your disappontment. Sucks to find out the "lottery ticket" was a fake.

 

[cleardirect]

What are you guys afraid of? if you so sure about your next DFR sign the DOH contract and file you have know other option. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF????

Cleary signs contract not the west. The east NAC negotiates the contract not the west. Where is the T/A so we can vote? What are you afraid of? Tthe west is along for the ride boys, get to work.

 

[767jetz]

Wow I thought you were talking about this event, How many combined pilots do you have and this many showed up ALPA SUX! http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/01/continental_united_airlines_pi_1.html

Here we go again. For a bunch of airline pilots your math sure is fuzzy. How did you all get through those math and physics classes before becoming pilots? Never mind.

OK genius... in round numbers UA/CO has about 10500 pilots. We also have 11 domiciles. Yes 11. How many domiciles for your group? And Cleveland is one of the smallest of them all. And they still were able to muster better numbers than your CLT hub.

You can play the numbers day all day if you like. The fact remains that a real airlines like UA, DL, and AA actually have unity, and a majority of pilots without their head in the sand. You guys have little unity and losing ground fast. A pathetic showing for USAPA on all fronts.

Your days are numbered MM. Perhaps now would be a good time to get that GED and brush up on the English language, syntax, and the written word. All good skills to have before your next job search!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Oh wait! I'll take FAILED ATTEMPTS TO BULLY MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN UNION for a thousand dollars, Alex

Answer: What is USAPA's FAILED attempt to sue the "Cactus 18" which in fact was 24+ pilots PLUS 100 John Doe pilots (to be named later)? Alex, this case was dismissed WITH PREJUDICE at first. USAPA decided to mis-spend more of their union's dues money in an attempt to appeal the dismissed case. The US Court of Appeals UPHELD the dismissal WITH PREJUDICE.

According to USAPA insiders, they are refusing to "let it go" and apologize for putting the former AWA pilots through this event. They intend to "hold the hammer over the heads" of the RICO litigants as a deterrent, claiming they have in their possession the "rocks & human feces" along with other evidence.

You know, nothing says "LOVE" like suing your own pilots with their own money. Real men of genius. :blink:

Oh so you know they have the evidence, sounds like OJ to us! http://www.planebusiness.com/buzz/awausapa.pdfWhat we deal with.