US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

Management has the perfect situation to use as an excuse for never giving us a raise.

BINGO!!!! You got it. Thank you George Nicolau. Doug, Scott and AL thank him daily for creating "The Perfect Storm"..........

 

[Phoenix]

....

DOH, NIC, alphabetical, DOB, lottery, LOS, C&R's and God knows how many theoretical combinations and iterations. Once we wade through all that, a ratified JCBA....... (one that can survive DRF-II,III, IV......)....

DFR-II, III, IV.... AFTER a ratified contract.

OK. Explain this...

Just for fun, let's assume that DFR II, III, and IV actually find USAPA guilty of their duty to fairly represent... because (I speak as a Westie) "That's inevitable, right!"

Is the remedy to have the court re-order the ratified list and impose the NIC? Even after the 9th declined (actually reversed) to impose the NIC?

It is a bit of a trick question, because the remedy is of course simply based on the harm. Some jump to the conclusion that the Nic is the goal post from which all harm will be measured, but they might want to ask themselves why the 9th didn't say that.

Cheers.

 

[fodase]

BINGO!!!! You got it. Thank you George Nicolau. Doug, Scott and AL thank him daily for creating "The Perfect Storm"..........

WRONG!!! The east thru USAPA handed them the perfect "STORM"

 

[No Land Green]

WRONG!!! The east thru USAPA handed them the perfect "STORM"

My MBA tells me differently LMAO!!!!!!

 

[mikey60]

Something these idiots who can't see past their own shadow fail to realize about seperate ops.

Lets say that the company and the board decide they are tired of losing multi-million dollar grievences filed by the West such as the TA-10 grievence. Who made that decision that cost the company soo much? I would be willing to speculate that it was one of those east VPs colluding to steal from the West and bolster the east operation. Any consequences to making multi-million dollar mistakes around here?

Now lets say the next VP of flight ops is a West friendly decision maker. hmmm......

What if donkeys had wings. Maybe they could fly. Its assnine to speculate to much but I agree about the board being tired of all of this.

 

[BoeingBoy]

It is a bit of a trick question, because the remedy is of course simply based on the harm. Some jump to the conclusion that the Nic is the goal post from which all harm will be measured, but they might want to ask themselves why the 9th didn't say that.

The 9th said that just as much as they said that USAPA is allowed to devise any seniority list of it's choosing. To paraphrase, they said that the company and USAPA might decide on joint contract that doesn't do the harm the west fears even if it doesn't contain the NIC. What harm does the West fear if not a list based on DOH?

The 9th also said that USAPA must negotiate for both sides equally under threat of a ripe DFR. What ripe DFR could they be talking about? Is putting the West pilots mostly at/near the bottom of a combined list so that East pilots could be higher equal representation?

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

In general, I agree. In a situation where a pilot group (employees) are at an impasse with an employer, arbitration is probably the only viable option.

Big difference when two employee groups with a common trade, have a disagreement about something as important as seniority. I just don't buy having ONE person unilaterally (OK, maybe if his initials were JC) make that decision for all of us.

Don't buy it, never will.

seajay

Employee group, business, personal dealings. Look at any contract under conflict resolution. Most contracts will say disputes will be settled by arbitration. Arbitration are done by ONE person.

Expand your view of the world beyond this single situation.

 

[Black Swan]

So in the LOA 93 arbitration. Was usapa ever going to admit that that do not get a pay raise? Is the company ever going to agree to pay the snap back? Lock both parties in a room for as long as you want. Never going to get to a solution or compromise.

Name another seniority arbitration that one side has bailed on the result.

there is nothing wrong with arbitrations. There is nothing wrong with ALPA merger policy it is the east that has failed to abide by their word. It is the east that is delaying this and costing us all money. nothing more.

Name another pilot group that changed representative agents, and therefore merger policy. You can't except this one. Emotions aside, tell me how the East failed to checkmate the west legally in this process. You can go on forever with your mantra of integrity, or whatever. The fact of the matter is you were checkmated, defeated legally, whatever you want to call it. Loophole. Big enough to drive a 330 through it, and you still can't comprehend that it happened, no matter how much you spend.

 

[Black Swan]

Employee group, business, personal dealings. Look at any contract under conflict resolution. Most contracts will say disputes will be settled by arbitration. Arbitration are done by ONE person.

Expand your view of the world beyond this single situation.

OK, I will. Internal Union Process. Comprehend it if you are up to it. Name one other labor integration that took this long since the day the arbitrator gave the award. There is a very real reason why this one never took place. USAPA.

 

[Black Swan]

Funny how you lament all of the lawyers and court battles. Yet blame ALPA arbitration. That WAS the reason for arbitration. So that we would not all be wasting millions on lawyers and waiting for the slow wheels of justice to decide.

That is the entire point of arbitration. Just because you don't like the outcome does not mean the arbitration was flawed.

There was NO WAY we were going to get to a settled agreement. Look where we are now. The east is still trying to shove DOH up our tailpipe. That is the same east position from day one. I have never heard anything from the east other than DOH/LOS. Furloughs want full credit.

You guys have the majority and still can't get it done. How were we ever going to agree locked in a room when both sides had equal say? Thus the reason for a neutral third party arbitrator.

Question: under A/M how is that differant that the ALPA policy? A single arbitrator decides the seniority. Under A/M it states that if the process is followed it is determined to be fair. The outcome is not questioned. Don't blame ALPA. Blame the people that agreed to a process and now fail to abide by it.

That is the reason we are spending millions on lawyers. Not following the arbitration.

Your last line is telling. I thought it was binding?You state "NOT FOLLOWING ARBITRATION" as the reason it didn't go. How does one NOT "FOLLOW ARBITRATION" if it is so binding as you have said for FIVE (5) years???? Figured it out yet? When you change your union, you change your integration methods. That is the big part you don't get. Name another airline that integrated with an arbitration that took over five years to do. You can't, unless you cite this one! I am going to give you a big hint. Doug Parker said it in the last video. "THIS IS FOR YOU GUYS TO DECIDE>>>>"

 

[cleardirect]

OK, I will. Internal Union Process. Comprehend it if you are up to it. Name one other labor integration that took this long since the day the arbitrator gave the award. There is a very real reason why this one never took place. USAPA.

Glad that you finally accepted the blame. It is usapa and the east that is to blame for the delay and the harm.

 

[Black Swan]

Glad that you finally accepted the blame. It is usapa and the east that is to blame for the delay and the harm.

Far from it. We accept ALL the credit. We dumped ALPA to the curb, and totally defeated the Nicolau. Five years running, the LOA 93 victory in the wings, and we will take ALL the credit for it. I really don't care about your delay with YOUR contract out there. Kasher is going to amend our working agreement very shortly and I hate to say it, but you can't coattail on this one. We honestly don't have any interest in anything in your neck of the woods. Ever.

 

[luvthe9]

Glad that you finally accepted the blame. It is usapa and the east that is to blame for the delay and the harm.

This is really funny. NOT FOLLOWING ARBITRATION!!!! How does that go down clear????? You said it!

 

[luvthe9]

How do you not follow BINDING ARBITRATION? Easy! Vote ALPA out!GO USAPA!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

The 9th said that just as much as they said that USAPA is allowed to devise any seniority list of it's choosing. To paraphrase, they said that the company and USAPA might decide on joint contract that doesn't do the harm the west fears even if it doesn't contain the NIC. What harm does the West fear if not a list based on DOH?

The 9th also said that USAPA must negotiate for both sides equally under threat of a ripe DFR. What ripe DFR could they be talking about? Is putting the West pilots mostly at/near the bottom of a combined list so that East pilots could be higher equal representation?

Jim

The 9th! We LOVE the 9th!!! The first in the TRIUMVERATE of DESTRUCTION to the DELUSIONAL WEST. The 9th destroyed the whacked WAKE. Th e 9th DESTROYED the Nicolau. THE SUPREME COURT buried the entire stinking pile of MANURE forever. The West and Boeing Boy still don't get it!!! 😛