AWA320
Veteran
Outstanding, that way you can look them all in the eyes and say " We in the east are about us and us only" "our greed will be paid by all of you"
Continue to hurt me with LOA93
AWA320
US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Richard
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Outstanding, that way you can look them all in the eyes and say " We in the east are about us and us only" "our greed will be paid by all of you"
Continue to hurt me with LOA93
AWA320
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Once again the joke is on you. You guys love to talk about attrition, even with many of yours coming from the right seat or from a leave of absence. I've seen the combined retirement schedule for the combined UA/CO list. It would make your head spin. I've also seen the manpower model the company is planning on and starting to prepare our training center for. Let's just say that once the retirements start, hypothetically speaking, if every west pilot applied and actually got hired (not saying that would be the case), we could absorb the entire west list in about 1.5 to 2 years. EASILY. Maybe even less than that. Once the hiring starts it will remain in the 800-1200 pilot per year mark for several years. They are looking at about a 10 year cycle.This is funny, I'm sure they are all guaranteed jobs, I would love to see how quickly they move up on the BOTTOM of a 10,000 pilot list. You really crack me up.
Just returned from a council meeting. There are quite a few 62-63 year old guys waiting for the new contract to collect the retro check plus the equity stake in the new company (ala Delta), and they are gone. The company is already planning on this. Every 747 captain that retires generates 7 seat movements on average. These are not fantasy numbers that you guys like to use. These come right from the horse's mouth.
Your myopia cracks me up!
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
No fear out here on the east just laughter at you but keep on making a fool of yourself. LSS hit the nail on the head.Not at all. I just see all that FEAR in you all in the east and it shows with each post. Personal attacks, insults, name calling etc. The end is near and you all feel it. Usappy never had a winning arguement and LCC is not going to side with you unless the court tells them they must do so. I dont care if you want to sentence yourself to years of the worst contract and benefits in all of aviation, thats YOUR chioce! I get paid BETTER than you top f/o on the same a/c and there is no two ways about it. I will collect my profit sharing and still be content. I will continue to wave and say hello to you all as I taxi by you in CLT and Philly all the while knowing that I am getting more per hr than the guy sittin in the blue top to do the same job. If my flt gets cancelled for any reason I rest easy knowing that I head to the hotel WITH PAY just like I flew the trip.
So continue to hurt me with LOA93
AWA320
AWA320
Veteran
Go back and re-read my man and you will see that I very seldom resort to personal attacks and name calling. That is the east motto because you have run out of things to say nad you never had a valid arguement in the first place.
Sure it does, why else would you even comment on it if it didnt??? You are scared LSS and it shows in each post that you, oldie, NYcitybusdirver, and nos. You hate oyu substandard contract and it burns you to be reminded of it. When you hear Horizon check on in his RJ70 you know that he gets paid better than east 320/737 captains. That fear has never been more obvious than it has been on here in the last couple of weeks.
Oh you are killiig me with LOA93 but its killing you too
AWA320
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
Oh this is rich, all westies apply over at CAL/UAL upgrade is just a few short years and the bonus you get ALPO back, now that's unless the mighty UAL caves on scope and lets all sorts of RJ's on the property, thanks for the laugh reminded me when I got hired here 30 yrs ago, "you'll upgrade in 4 to 5 yrs" right!!!!!
Really? where will ALPA be during NAUGHLER! USAPA is not party to the NIC! There is no stall except that of the company, NO the DJ will get tossed then the T/A will be modified and DOH will be included in a CBA, then everybody is free to file there DFR's, BREEGER, ETC! MM!
To the extent that the Company asserts
that the issue of negotiating seniority has been definitively addressed under the terms of the
Transition Agreement (“TA”), then the Company asserts an issue of contract interpretation
5 The Ninth Circuit specifically recognized the absolute right of the pilots to exercise their
democratic franchise and vote yes or no on any contract incorporating the seniority proposal.
606 F.3d at 1181 n.2. Given this ratification hurdle, it is solely the union’s responsibility to
balance the interests of the bargaining unit as a whole and negotiate a contract with a seniority
list that is capable of ratification. Here again, the intrusion by the Company (or the Court for
that matter) into an internal union process such as this has been described by the Ninth Circuit
as “offensive.” Electra-Food Mach., 621 F.2d at 958; Motion Picture, 800 F.2d at 975.
Case 2:10-cv-01570-ROS Document 68 Filed 11/01/10 Page 5 of 17
within the exclusive jurisdiction of the System Board.6 The Company has the undisputed right,
under Section X.B and C of the TA, to submit any dispute to the System Board for resolution.
(Doc. # 34-2 at 13).
The Company has twice failed to pursue resolution of the alleged controversy before the
System Board. First, when – having won dismissal of claims against it by the Addington
plaintiffs – the Company acquiesced to the withdrawal of their grievance before the System
Board and chose not to pursue the matter itself; a tacit admission that there is nothing about this
matter that presents harm or any imminent crisis to the Company. Second, when the Company
sought this Court’s intervention instead of resorting to the System Board, which it knew from
its own successful motion to dismiss, to have exclusive jurisdiction. To the extent that the
Addington plaintiffs have not already waived their contract-based claims due to their prior
grievance withdrawal, they could be given notice of the arbitral proceedings and allowed
petition to be included as a party to the arbitral process. See Steward v. Mann, 351 F.3d 1338,
1346-47 (11th Cir. 2003).
Even more fundamentally, the TA, pursuant to section XII.B, is open for modification by
USAPA and the Company. (Doc. # 34-2 at 15). Indeed, pursuant to section XII.E.1 of the TA,
it is open for termination, hence it is no firm goal-post to hitch a case or controversy to. (Id. at
16).
6 The Company admits the dispute is contractual in nature by arguing that the West pilot
litigation threat is viable because the “Transition Agreement … required ALPA to present and
US Airways to accept the Nicolau Award [and that] such tendering and acceptance of the
Nicolau Award has occurred in accordance with the terms of the Transition Agreement …”
(Resp. 22:2). Of course, the ultimate goal under both the TA and Section 2, First of the RLA is
to reach a ratifiable collective bargaining agreement – not to extend the multi-year "the ole section XII.B " MM!
that the issue of negotiating seniority has been definitively addressed under the terms of the
Transition Agreement (“TA”), then the Company asserts an issue of contract interpretation
5 The Ninth Circuit specifically recognized the absolute right of the pilots to exercise their
democratic franchise and vote yes or no on any contract incorporating the seniority proposal.
606 F.3d at 1181 n.2. Given this ratification hurdle, it is solely the union’s responsibility to
balance the interests of the bargaining unit as a whole and negotiate a contract with a seniority
list that is capable of ratification. Here again, the intrusion by the Company (or the Court for
that matter) into an internal union process such as this has been described by the Ninth Circuit
as “offensive.” Electra-Food Mach., 621 F.2d at 958; Motion Picture, 800 F.2d at 975.
Case 2:10-cv-01570-ROS Document 68 Filed 11/01/10 Page 5 of 17
within the exclusive jurisdiction of the System Board.6 The Company has the undisputed right,
under Section X.B and C of the TA, to submit any dispute to the System Board for resolution.
(Doc. # 34-2 at 13).
The Company has twice failed to pursue resolution of the alleged controversy before the
System Board. First, when – having won dismissal of claims against it by the Addington
plaintiffs – the Company acquiesced to the withdrawal of their grievance before the System
Board and chose not to pursue the matter itself; a tacit admission that there is nothing about this
matter that presents harm or any imminent crisis to the Company. Second, when the Company
sought this Court’s intervention instead of resorting to the System Board, which it knew from
its own successful motion to dismiss, to have exclusive jurisdiction. To the extent that the
Addington plaintiffs have not already waived their contract-based claims due to their prior
grievance withdrawal, they could be given notice of the arbitral proceedings and allowed
petition to be included as a party to the arbitral process. See Steward v. Mann, 351 F.3d 1338,
1346-47 (11th Cir. 2003).
Even more fundamentally, the TA, pursuant to section XII.B, is open for modification by
USAPA and the Company. (Doc. # 34-2 at 15). Indeed, pursuant to section XII.E.1 of the TA,
it is open for termination, hence it is no firm goal-post to hitch a case or controversy to. (Id. at
16).
6 The Company admits the dispute is contractual in nature by arguing that the West pilot
litigation threat is viable because the “Transition Agreement … required ALPA to present and
US Airways to accept the Nicolau Award [and that] such tendering and acceptance of the
Nicolau Award has occurred in accordance with the terms of the Transition Agreement …”
(Resp. 22:2). Of course, the ultimate goal under both the TA and Section 2, First of the RLA is
to reach a ratifiable collective bargaining agreement – not to extend the multi-year "the ole section XII.B " MM!
AWA320
Veteran
No fear out here on the east just laughter at you but keep on making a fool of yourself. LSS hit the nail on the head.
You may well be laughing but I am sure that the whole industry is laughing at you. Go ahead, hurl your insults and continue with your name calling because we all know that's all you got! What kind of person says I am fine with my industry worst contract? Now take a look at your post and ask yourself who's really making a fool of themselves?
Continue to hurt me with LOA93 I'm loving this feeling how about you?
AWA320
AWA320
Veteran
Good luck with that!!! I know that your saying it to yourself makes you feel that its true but those of us who reside in the real world know better. "UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE SUIT WE LEAVE THE PARTIES TO BARGIN IN GOOD FAITH".
I am going to us your method tonight. I am going to the AM PM tell the clerk to print me a mega million ticket and tell her that the ticket she prints is the one I am taking to the lottery commission in the morning and its going to be the winner. I will keep saying this to myself and maybe it will come true.
Yeah MM just keep wishing in that star maybe your dreams will all come true
In the mean time just keep beating me with LOA93
AWA320
Well the BREEGER case will be ripe also, get in line! MM!Good luck with that!!! I know that your saying it to yourself makes you feel that its true but those of us who reside in the real world know better. "UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE SUIT WE LEAVE THE PARTIES TO BARGIN IN GOOD FAITH".
I am going to us your method tonight. I am going to the AM PM tell the clerk to print me a mega million ticket and tell her that the ticket she prints is the one I am taking to the lottery commission in the morning and its going to be the winner. I will keep saying this to myself and maybe it will come true.
Yeah MM just keep wishing in that star maybe your dreams will all come true
In the mean time just keep beating me with LOA93
AWA320
AWA320
Veteran
Not concerned with any other case at this moment but east vs west. Oh and the major blow to the usappy ego in LOA93 arb I am concerned with.
AWA320
Simple Minds! MM!
Excuse me but arnt your f/o's typed when trained?
Reed Richards
Veteran
- Sep 2, 2009
- 1,389
- 1,161
Good luck with that!!! I know that your saying it to yourself makes you feel that its true but those of us who reside in the real world know better. "UNDER THE PAIN OF AN UNQUESTIONABLY RIPE SUIT WE LEAVE THE PARTIES TO BARGIN IN GOOD FAITH".
I am going to us your method tonight. I am going to the AM PM tell the clerk to print me a mega million ticket and tell her that the ticket she prints is the one I am taking to the lottery commission in the morning and its going to be the winner. I will keep saying this to myself and maybe it will come true.
Yeah MM just keep wishing in that star maybe your dreams will all come true
In the mean time just keep beating me with LOA93
AWA320
Now that I know who you are Ray, your lottery reference is even more poignant. You guys were always nice enough, but always thought somehow the world owed you a living. Your insistence on being owed a certain part of “the pie” because of your supposed contribution to the merger is now legendary. Your stale piece of pie is now much smaller with the closure of the Las Vegas base, and getting staler all the time. In fact, you might think about putting it your freezer so you can marvel at it with your grandkids.
We came into this merger with our sub standard LOA 93, but paid the price in blood and careers lost to secure a strong, enforceable, and potentially fruitful Section I. You came in with a holier than thou attitude, only slightly better wages, and no scope other than some soon to be fleeting minimum fleet protections under the always amendable TA.
You never really negotiated in earnest for seniority, always figuring the “worst” you would do is actual DOH. You won that bet, but it now appears your chances of ever cashing in that chip are nil.
We held out for DOH, incorrectly assuming our own union would at least follow its own merger guidelines and find a happy medium. We lost that bet.
Excepting both our chances at compromise (and you did not participate..could have had LOS for furlough!) at Wye River….. here we be! That “place” continues to favor the East, with yesterday’s ruling being yet another small and unnecessary win.
A new union with DOH as its charter, and no compromise in sight, other than whatever conditions and restrictions you can get. The faena is in full view as we speak.
And to be clear, you and all of our pilots (excepting our own Mike Davis) will always be politely welcome in my jumpseat, no questions asked.
RR
Is that our boy RAY B, wow go figure sure fits! JAMIE , JJ, JG, MM! 7-26-66 sure fits
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