US Pilots Labor Discussion

[trevrep]

To any West pilot or pilots,

What would be the harm (and I am not asking this in a rhetorical sense) to band together with the East pilots to push the company for an industry standard contract? Yes, it would have DOH but then you could file for DFR II. Two things happen; we will get a better contract if we all fight together against the company and two, it will speed up the process of finally letting the courts decide if the NIC is what we have to live under or not. I know we will have to wait to see if the company's court case makes this strategy null & void but if it doesn't......

Sounds great to me............only one minor detail.

Let's do it WITH the NIC, then you can count 1,700 west pilots in and up for anything we need to do to get that industry contract.

 

[fatherabraham]

Have yourself a great week.....

Hey TREVREP,

Ditto on good week.

Websters:
PERVERT a: to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right

 

[AWA320]

*************************************************************
You didn't answer the question but that is ok, your post enough is telling. Even you have been around enough to not buy the company propoganda.... This place can and will make money as it is....

I have no intentnion of getting the resume ready, (dual track career here) .... Never did the JB thing as was waiting for the attrition to kick in....

back to your regular programming

I did answer your question!! I think you may not have liked my answer. If this place can survive seperate in the long term which I highly doubt then seperate ops it will be. Now like I said, that would be a function of management and not labor. I also stated that it will come a severe price.

I love flying but no longer need it. I made sure of that several years ago as I have always said that flying is the best part time hobby job in the world. It has never really been totally stable and for that reason I got into business.

AWA320

 

[trevrep]

The company is legally obligated to negotiate a JCBA with USAPA, like it or not. If the process does not produce a contract, the mediator will release both sides to self-help. How self-help would play out is just another big unknown. The process is what it is.

seajay

CJ I agree.....but do you think you can count on the West if it comes to self help? If we were ever released to do that?

This scotus thing today was no big deal, no cause for high fives or dancing in the crew room......only relates to ripeness.

Ground hog day.

 

[trevrep]

Hey TREVREP,

Ditto on good week.

Websters:
PERVERT a: to cause to turn aside or away from what is good or true or morally right

STREVREPS: the name of one of the best ever men's Class A softball teams out of California (for those who don't get out much)

 

[exB717Flyer]

To any West pilot or pilots,

What would be the harm (and I am not asking this in a rhetorical sense) to band together with the East pilots to push the company for an industry standard contract? Yes, it would have DOH but then you could file for DFR II.

Doesn't make sense to agree to a contract that harms us and then sue for failure to DFR. Any other questions?

 

[fatherabraham]

STREVREPS: the name of one of the best ever men's Class A softball teams out of California (for those who don't get out much)

Hmmmm.....you picked the handle. Telling

 

[Missfit]

AWA320

Here's the "you're awesome" post for today.

Your greatness is more than most people on these boards can stand. You may have to tone it down a little and just give it to them in small doses rather than what comes off as lunatic rantings. But never forget how incredible you are...YOU alone are special and more deserving than any other individual out there.

It is obvious you are an extremely busy(posting on this web board) and important(in your own mind) individual and don't have time to watch the crew news videos...

Oh well stay busy!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The only remaining opinion that mattered concerning DFR-I has been rendered by SCOTUS:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/011011zor.pdf

This chess piece has been removed from the game board. The game is far from over and the outcome is anything but certain.

Play on, whose move is it?

seajay

That's the best post I've yet seen today. The game goes on. I've got my ideas, but it won't do any good to say much, to many of my ideas in the past have been proven to be, uh, WRONG.

Well I guess I can safely say one thing. It will cost some more money.

 

[AWA320]

The company is legally obligated to negotiate a JCBA with USAPA, like it or not. If the process does not produce a contract, the mediator will release both sides to self-help. How self-help would play out is just another big unknown. The process is what it is.

seajay

Ok sense you began this with some sense of intelligence I will respond in like manner. The company is obligated to negotiate with the bargaining agent as per RLA. The company is also under contract via the transition agreement which is the major sticking point for these negotiations. The company would like to move on however they are stuck because of this agreement. Seham has the emotional east pilots thinking they can change the name and walk away from an agreement. In short you cant.

Now let me tell you why with an example. The name of my company changed however I am under my same contract. If that were true then it would possible to eliminate any contract with a simple name change and change of a few principles. Contracts are there for a reason. They are there to protect the parties and their interests. LCC is unwilling to breach that contract on the say so of usapa because it is LCC that would suffer the most in litigation.

I think the easy way would have been to breach and then let the DFR take hold however some one counted the beans and figured that it would cost far more to go that route. Now many on this forum are completely clueless as to the purpose of the Declaratory judgement. If usapa really wanted an end game they would support this action to finally get the answer to the questions they seek. Usapa is begging for a dismissal which does not get them to the end game at all. All that really needs to happen for the west is for the courts to say no indemnity and frankly thats really all thats going to happen. The courts are not there to offer indemnity to parties of law suits.

AWA320

 

[LSS]

Sounds great to me............only one minor detail.

Let's do it WITH the NIC, then you can count 1,700 west pilots in and up for anything we need to do to get that industry contract.

Rightttt!... It is never ending... its all about you, and your precious NIC isn't it?... Well... I have a news flash for you... it isn't all about you. We will never give up our seniority and attrition according to a NIC ordered list unless a court orders otherwise. USAPA is far from perfect and they have made mistakes... but in the overall scheme of things... they have done a damn good job... despite all the detractor's efforts to undermine them at every turn.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Ok sense you began this with some sense of intelligence I will respond in like manner. The company is obligated to negotiate with the bargaining agent as per RLA. The company is also under contract via the transition agreement which is the major sticking point for these negotiations. The company would like to move on however they are stuck because of this agreement. Seham has the emotional east pilots thinking they can change the name and walk away from an agreement. In short you cant.

Now let me tell you why with an example. The name of my company changed however I am under my same contract. If that were true then it would possible to eliminate any contract with a simple name change and change of a few principles. Contracts are there for a reason. They are there to protect the parties and their interests. LCC is unwilling to breach that contract on the say so of usapa because it is LCC that would suffer the most in litigation.

I think the easy way would have been to breach and then let the DFR take hold however some one counted the beans and figured that it would cost far more to go that route. Now many on this forum are completely clueless as to the purpose of the Declaratory judgement. If usapa really wanted an end game they would support this action to finally get the answer to the questions they seek. Usapa is begging for a dismissal which does not get them to the end game at all. All that really needs to happen for the west is for the courts to say no indemnity and frankly thats really all thats going to happen. The courts are not there to offer indemnity to parties of law suits.

AWA320

I don't expect the company to be indemnified, either. I expect that the DJ will be thrown out, post haste. Then, the company will have a decision to make, either do the LAWFUL thing and negotiate with USAPA, or try some other kind of end-around, and maybe get sued by USAPA or other east entities. They would stand alone in that lawsuit, and would most certainly lose it. Now, according to the SCOTUS, the ONLY thing that would allow another lawsuit is a ratified contract, and then the burden of proof will be whether the union negotisted a method which is fair FOR ALL IT'S MEMBERS, and WITHIN A WIDE RANGE OF REASONABLENESS.

WAWAW320, better shut up while you're ahead. You just look more stupid with every post. If this is just a hobby for you, why not find something new like beekeeping or stamp collecting and quit. You and a couple of others are really making the westies look bad.

 

[trevrep]

Rightttt!... It is never ending... its all about you, and your precious NIC isn't it?... Well... I have a news flash for you... it isn't all about you. We will never give up our seniority and attrition according to a NIC ordered list unless a court orders otherwise. USAPA is far from perfect and they have made mistakes... but in the overall scheme of things... they have done a damn good job... despite all the detractor's efforts to undermine them at every turn.

No it's not all about me...review the evidence in the Addington case and you'll see why usapa was formed and it's intents and goals.

Guilty by a jury.

If usapa ever gets a contract we'll be back with dfr II.....

don't know why you say it's all about me.....you and I were both represented whether we liked it or not...alpa reps...they didn't come to an agreement so it went to final and binding arbitration....then along comes the angry f/o club dba usapa....and derailed the merger, thus a new contract.

I have a news flash for you...you aren't going to get your snap back...and the courts are not going to give doug a free pass to negotiate away from the nic...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[trevrep]

Hmmmm.....you picked the handle. Telling

...oh please....forgive me Father Abraham...for I have sinned. Have you? haha

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No it's not all about me...review the evidence in the Addington case and you'll see why usapa was formed and it's intents and goals.

Guilty by a jury.

If usapa ever gets a contract we'll be back with dfr II.....

don't know why you say it's all about me.....you and I were both represented whether we liked it or not...alpa reps...they didn't come to an agreement so it went to final and binding arbitration....then along comes the angry f/o club dba usapa....and derailed the merger, thus a new contract.

I have a news flash for you...you aren't going to get your snap back...and the courts are not going to give doug a free pass to negotiate away from the nic...put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Bring it on....That will mean we have a RATIFIED contract, since that's the ONLY way you can file it.

And, I've got news for you. The company was just sent a message by SCOTUS that they HAVE TO negotiate with USAPA.

The NIC is DEAD. Has been for a long time.