US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

The only remaining opinion that mattered concerning DFR-I has been rendered by SCOTUS:

http://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/011011zor.pdf

This chess piece has been removed from the game board. The game is far from over and the outcome is anything but certain.

Play on, whose move is it?

seajay

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Having the SCOTUS hear this case would have been interesting. It would also have likely slowed down the resolution process to an absolute crawl. There is simply no telling how long the DFR I case would take to make it to the Supremes to hear and make a ruling on, and then back to district court and who knows what from there? Another injunction? More USAPA appeals? It would likely have been many more years before a JCBA could even legitimately be discussed if they had taken the case. Getting justice for the west and a definitive legal ruling on ripeness outside of the extremely poor job done by Tashima and Graber would be a benefit to all, but it would have been very painful from a time delay perspective.

Now, the DJ can move forward and judge Silver can make her ruling. If she tells the company that the NIC cannot be legally disregarded, then USAPA will either have to accept the NIC or admit to their membership that no JCBA will be forthcoming. If she gives the company a legal pass on a hybrid-DFR by claiming that seniority is an internal union matter to be decided and resolved by the union and its membership, then USAPA can move as quickly as they like to get all the open sections of the JCBA closed and out for ratification. My guess is that TA would essentially be the Kirby with DOH for section 22. Once ratified, it’s back to DFR II (non-hybrid) where USAPA already lost once, save for the unquestionably ripe part of the case.

Any way you slice it, not having the SCOTUS take the case, moves this issue much closer to a resolution. USAPA will be out of excuses as to why they cannot produce a JCBA with industry leading rates and DOH. They will either produce the contract the east voted them in to attain, or they will have to admit to being incapable of producing the same. If I were a USAPA supporter, I would be less inclined to view that the SCOTUS denial as a victory and would be far more concerned about the implications that this brings for USAPA’s house of cards.

USAPIANS:
LOA93 grievance – do you really want to hear the result?
Company DJ filing – do you really want to hear the result?
JCBA – do you really want to know what the best contract USAPA can negotiate once they can’t hide behind the section 22 dispute any longer?

I know I’m ready to see all of these things come to light. 2011 could be a banner year for seeing USAPA fail on every issue of real importance.

You forgot about the big assesment were going to have to pay! JAMIE, JJ,JG, MM!

 

[trevrep]

I know I'm right about at least one thing. IT SUCKS TO LOSE, doesn't it? Go ahead, cry. You'll feel better tomorrow!

I wonder what the west lawyers are gonna do now? they've got to have a car payment coming up or something. Gotta find a way to keep the cash rolling in!

ALPA STILL SUX!
[/quote

Happy Monday Morning there Oldie......the SCOTUS was a long shot we all knew.....review all the evidence in DFR 1....not that uSaPa will EVER get a contract, cause the odds are they won't.....not at the rate they are moving, of course we all know that's not their intention anyway...

Lose...tell us how it feels...you've lost a lot if you've been with US Airways for very long.

Anyways, if they ever got a contract....it would be called DFR II and all that evidence comes back and guess what....it's called "ground hog day!" Hope you enjoyed that movie...cause usapa and the vocal East are like a stuck record...show us some results....usapa is not doing too good of a job in uniting anyone or anything...just riding that FPL gravy train just like the alpa guys did.

Have yourself a great week.....

 

[AWA320]

So that means you will be sitting in the right seat 5 -10 more years. Are you
the guy who was crying at the crew news meeting where he ALMOST had a
Capt. bid and BAM merger happenes and now you are trapped. YOU get no
sympathy from anyone east. NONE. Go look elsewhere for a shoulder to cry on.
We don't care what your needs are to feel like a whole person. Your big plans
have been shot down. Like I said its probably going to be worse that you thought.
Glad you are 44. You you will need every day to recoup the loss to your golden
left seat and not pine over the Capt. seat you lost and will not get for some years.
Your anger is palpable....but we don't care!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

No I dont go to the crew news as I have for too many things to do than to listen to the nonsense.

My plans have been shot down? Really, how so?? You see the tide rolls in and out my friend. You have been able to stall and gum up the works but it comes at a price and that price is your extremely sorry contract. 5 10 yrs as you say means you have sentenced you and those below you to substandard wages an benefits. Yes you will retire and feel good about going out on colgan wages and benefits. Now those that you left behind with will pay for years and years. This is how selfishness my man. You are all about me, I, my and not at all worried about those behind you. The east actions are not at all unlike a company that pollutes the water knowing in 75yrs from now it will be a major problem but it dont effect me today so fk'em!!!

Do what you gotta do and remember I will exact my revenge on those you leave behind!!! Next time you're at a scab meeting tell that to those you are leveing behind

AWA320

 

[crazystnic]

Sadly the fight goes on. I don't ever see an end to this mess. And I'm like Oldie.. AlPA sucks.. there worthless merger policy has been festering for years and now it has come to the fore front.

IN the mean time I'm hearing of another bid and more movement for the east. In short order it will be real movement.

It's a shame both sides (and I don't buy that we dont' have two sides now so we can't figure out a solution) can't put this thing together and then start

demanding the company pay us properly.

Parker tells us his hands are tied, which I think is BS as well.

In the meantime, I'm ok with LOA 93 to keep the NIC at bay.

 

[trevrep]

Certiorari has been denied by SCOTUS! Next.

........next you say....ah, how about your snapback arbitration? or the DJ form the courts to Dougie? or DFR II? Great "union" eh? usapa doesn't come close to meeting that definition..they are disgusting.

 

[AWA320]

This from a group of whiners that walk around with four stripes (talk about needing to feel like a whole person) because you USED to be a captain. That is the whole point of usapa to get your F/Os into the left seat. Pot meet kettle.

It is the east pilots that are drying of the lose of your captain seats.

Daaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnn that one is gonna leave a mark. I can see it now, they all gather in the Philly and CLT crew room shaking hands and greeting one another "moring captain, captain, captain captain

AWA320

 

[trevrep]

You mean the one without the NIC award?

RR

.............they'll never ever negotiate a contract with Tombstone Tempe management. Ever.

Next?

 

[crazystnic]

Daaaaaaaaaaaamnnnnn that one is gonna leave a mark. I can see it now, they all gather in the Philly and CLT crew room shaking hands and greeting one another "moring captain, captain, captain captain

AWA320

HEY AWA 320.. I'm a tad older than you but why won't you agree to keep this operaton separate? put up a fence and call it a day? Why do you want an East CAPT vacancy created by the east and for the EAST?

How about it?

 

[Sadstateofaffairs]

To any West pilot or pilots,

What would be the harm (and I am not asking this in a rhetorical sense) to band together with the East pilots to push the company for an industry standard contract? Yes, it would have DOH but then you could file for DFR II. Two things happen; we will get a better contract if we all fight together against the company and two, it will speed up the process of finally letting the courts decide if the NIC is what we have to live under or not. I know we will have to wait to see if the company's court case makes this strategy null & void but if it doesn't......

 

[SixBurgh]

You act like sentencing yourself to the worst wages in the business really hurts me I'm 44 I can out last your games. DO what you gotta do

AWA320

the last 15 of your posts sound like someone who missed the last few doses of prozac. get back on your medication so you can try to comprehend the real world. To respond to a few of your diatribes: i don't care how old, rich, smart, or anything else you have to say. I never threaten j/s riders, they are always welcome whether they are from the west or anywhere else for that matter. We are all people trying to make a living and get back and forth to work. Anyone who denies a j/s to another pilot because of the merger/nic a senceless small minded halfwit who doesn't get the big picture.

AWA320, i hope your having fun but you sound and look bad, very bad. Get some help

Six

 

[AWA320]

HEY AWA 320.. I'm a tad older than you but why won't you agree to keep this operaton separate? put up a fence and call it a day? Why do you want an East CAPT vacancy created by the east and for the EAST?

How about it?

Its not nor has it ever been a question of what I wanted. If that were so I would have passed on merging with usair and waited it out to maybe pick up assets after liquidation. Parker made this move with the intent of wrapping up AAA and DAL all within a 3 year period of time. It failed and he has a mess on his hands now as a results. Two failed attempts at merging this place with dance partners running out. LCC is not at all viable by itself and that much will come to pass here really soon. If seperate ops is what management wants then seperate ops is what it will do without any say from pilots. That too comes at a major price and thats several more years at substandard pay and benefits.

We have a min fleet clause here in the west and I dont recall what you have there in the east but I am sure its something similar. Fuel prices on the rise and two companies now stripped down from what they were makes a really good fragmentation target.

Do you have your resume and log books up to date? I do. Read the tea leaves are they are very telling.

AWA320

 

[Zone5]

.............they'll never ever negotiate a contract with Tombstone Tempe management. Ever.

Next?

The company is legally obligated to negotiate a JCBA with USAPA, like it or not. If the process does not produce a contract, the mediator will release both sides to self-help. How self-help would play out is just another big unknown. The process is what it is.

seajay

 

[crazystnic]

Its not nor has it ever been a question of what I wanted. If that were so I would have passed on merging with usair and waited it out to maybe pick up assets after liquidation. Parker made this move with the intent of wrapping up AAA and DAL all within a 3 year period of time. It failed and he has a mess on his hands now as a results. Two failed attempts at merging this place with dance partners running out. LCC is not at all viable by itself and that much will come to pass here really soon. If seperate ops is what management wants then seperate ops is what it will do without any say from pilots. That too comes at a major price and thats several more years at substandard pay and benefits.

We have a min fleet clause here in the west and I dont recall what you have there in the east but I am sure its something similar. Fuel prices on the rise and two companies now stripped down from what they were makes a really good fragmentation target.

Do you have your resume and log books up to date? I do. Read the tea leaves are they are very telling.

AWA320

*************************************************************
You didn't answer the question but that is ok, your post enough is telling. Even you have been around enough to not buy the company propoganda.... This place can and will make money as it is....

I have no intentnion of getting the resume ready, (dual track career here) .... Never did the JB thing as was waiting for the attrition to kick in....

back to your regular programming

 

[AWA320]

the last 15 of your posts sound like someone who missed the last few doses of prozac. get back on your medication so you can try to comprehend the real world. To respond to a few of your diatribes: i don't care how old, rich, smart, or anything else you have to say. I never threaten j/s riders, they are always welcome whether they are from the west or anywhere else for that matter. We are all people trying to make a living and get back and forth to work. Anyone who denies a j/s to another pilot because of the merger/nic a senceless small minded halfwit who doesn't get the big picture.

AWA320, i hope your having fun but you sound and look bad, very bad. Get some help

Six

Six you're new to the forum with your all but 2 posts so I m going to cut you a little slack. Starting off with your insults is very telling of your fear of west invasion. Fear not my child as we will sweep thru the east like a spring storm and it will happen so fast you wont even feel it

BTW yes i am having fun at you and your brethren's expense. Rattling your cages gives me a sense of pleasure
AWA320