US Pilots Labor Discussion

[RSVP767]

Man are you wrong (again) - it seems to have worked pretty well with DL/NW pilots, and probably with the UA/CO pilots at the end of the day.

So where was I wrong? Does a mechanic working on an A330 make a lot more than a mechanic working on an E190? Does a FA working the 76 from PHL to CLT make a lot more than a FA working the E190? How about the agents - do they get paid a lot more for working a 330 flight than when working a 190 flight? How about those rampers - do they get paid a lot more for loading a 330 than loading a 190?

You may be older but you're certainly no wiser when it comes to seniority. You just want someone to give you the integration you want for any merger, although what you want changes from integration to integration.

Jim

Hey Jim, How much more does an America West 757 Captain make than an America West 737 Captain?

 

[BoeingBoy]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? About as much more as an East A321 driver makes over an East 737 driver.

Jim

 

[700UW]

Actually under the Mechanic and Related CBA its not all done by seniority, its also done by classification date if you hold more than one classification.

So when I was hired, I started in Air Cargo, moved over to Maintenance and became Utility, then got an upgrade to Stores.

I had a hire date, an adjusted date and a Utility Classification Date and a Stores Date.

My DOH was only used for flying, everything else was date under the M&R Classification Dates. Bid Area, Shifts, etc.... And Vacation Accrual was done by the adjusted date (Part time hired, went to full time)

So once again, Oldie, you dont know what your talking about.

 

[RSVP767]

Man are you wrong (again) - it seems to have worked pretty well with DL/NW pilots, and probably with the UA/CO pilots at the end of the day.

So where was I wrong? Does a mechanic working on an A330 make a lot more than a mechanic working on an E190? Does a FA working the 76 from PHL to CLT make a lot more than a FA working the E190? How about the agents - do they get paid a lot more for working a 330 flight than when working a 190 flight? How about those rampers - do they get paid a lot more for loading a 330 than loading a 190?

You may be older but you're certainly no wiser when it comes to seniority. You just want someone to give you the integration you want for any merger, although what you want changes from integration to integration.

Jim

I suppose if ALPA negotiated their contracts under ALPA's philosophy a mechanic fixing an A330 would make more than a mechanic fixing an E190. After all, once the A330 is fixed and back on the line it can carry and move more people than the E190 so the mechanic should share in that, no?

Same for the F/A's. The A330 carries more people than the E190 creating more revenue. Shouldn't the F/A's share in that?

And let's not forget the Rampers.....the A330 holds more bags than the E190, at $25/bag, generating a hell of a lot more revenue. Hell maybe we should just pay the Rampers all the money since they are generating all the profits throwing those $25 bags!

Piece of work Jim, a real piece of work!

 

[RSVP767]

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? About as much more as an East A321 driver makes over an East 737 driver.

Jim

Worth about the same as your posts Jim. Zero, Zip, Zilch, Nada!!!! Which was my point.

But hey Jim,......you got me!

 

[BoeingBoy]

At least I'm consistent in my beliefs - no picking DOH for one merger, relative position by seat/equip for another, then insisting on DOH for yet another. Talk about a piece of work...you and your cohorts want whatever will put more of the other airline's pilots below you more than anything else and pick your method to give you what you want.

Why not just take the line of the movie - greed is good...

Jim

 

[RSVP767]

Yep, ALPA should have insisted on relative position by seat/equip. Then you'd be happy...

Jim

ps - why not just admit you want what's best for you and your peers (which doesn't include the merger partner's pilots)? A least you'd be honest about it and stop trying to convince everyone that you're after some something other than greed.

Good point Jim. So, you want honesty. Here you go, Jim, greed at it's best:

Make me number 1, the hell with the rest, right!.........now that would make me happy!

How 'bout you Jim, you happy now!

P.S. - Of course your statement doesn't apply to the West, right? They don't want what's best for them and their peers do they??? That would just simply be............greedy!

Piece of work Jim, real piece of work!

 

[BoeingBoy]

They don't want what's best for them and their peers do they???

Nope, they just want the East to stand by the arbitration result as both sides agreed to do.

Jim

 

[RSVP767]

At least I'm consistent in my beliefs - no picking DOH for one merger, relative position by seat/equip for another, then insisting on DOH for yet another. Talk about a piece of work...you and your cohorts want whatever will put more of the other airline's pilots below you more than anything else and pick your method to give you what you want.

Why not just take the line of the movie - greed is good...

Jim

As am I, Jim. My consistent belief is DOH. Always has been, always will be. But I did not get to negotiate the list......in any of our mergers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

As am I, Jim. My consistent belief is DOH. Always has been, always will be. But I did not get to negotiate the list......in any of our mergers.

You did, however, vote for the base reps that choose your negotiators. I didn't agree to the 55 mph nationwide speed limit back in the 80's but that doesn't mean I wasn't required to abide by it or risk getting a ticket. That's how a representative democracy works.

BTW - how much did you complain about the Trump pilots not getting DOH

Jim

 

[RSVP767]

Nope, they just want the East to stand by the arbitration result as both sides agreed to do.

Jim

Which would certianly be BEST FOR THEM now wouldn't it?

This has been fun Jim, but I have to go do something productive now.

See ya!

 

[Zone5]

Who besides a neutral should decide it if the parties cannot agree?

Like I stated, the two pilot groups who have to coexist, hammer out a CBA, vote it up or down and anyone sufficiently pissed off at the result is then free to file a "ripe" DFR action. Ultimately, the court decides in accordance with applicable law. When the dust settles, we all get to get on with flying the jets or going somewhere else. In the mean time the company has to pay the pilots in accordance with the terms of the new CBA instead of pocketing the difference.

No problem.

seajay

 

[RSVP767]

You did, however, vote for the base reps that choose your negotiators. I didn't agree to the 55 mph nationwide speed limit back in the 80's but that doesn't mean I wasn't required to abide by it or risk getting a ticket. That's how a representative democracy works.

BTW - how much did you complain about the Trump pilots not getting DOH

Jim

Absent a National Seniority List, they should have got their Trump DOH. They did better. I was fine with it.

Now please explain a bit about Democracy to the West. There's that whole majority thing going on that they can't seem to grasp.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Absent a National Seniority List, they should have got their Trump DOH. They did better. I was fine with it

So you're fine with taking away their fragmentation rights? Will you be as "fine" if US should fragment off the two parts and you get your "new" DOH - at the bottom of the buying carrier's list?

Jim

PS - they seem to know about the DFR thing so don't need to know about that majority thing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Like I stated, the two pilot groups who have to coexist, hammer out a CBA, vote it up or down and anyone sufficiently pissed off at the result is then free to file a "ripe" DFR action.

Nice sentiment, but unfortunately it takes two to negotiate a joint contract and the company is in the midst of limiting their potential liability for going with the arbitrated seniority list or DOH. Until that's settled in USAPA's favor I don't think the company and USAPA can hammer out a deal - USAPA is so far insisting on a DOH list while the West has told the company that they'll file a hybrid DFR suit if the Nic is the combined list. I'm not sure the East pilots would ratify a contract unless it included DOH.

Jim