US Pilots Labor Discussion

[john john]

I think you'll find that that agreement you voted for says "US pilots" get profit sharing. Since everyone is one big happy family (thanks to USAPA's single carrier request) "US pilots" includes the West pilots.

Well well I think you are starting to get “it”

 

[Ames]

Yes indeed you are right and again we have to thank your AWA management for helping us to get to be the worst. you see they are good at something!!

You were the worst long before AWA management came along and everyone knows that, especially you. AWA management simply kept you going so that you could suck the very life out of an airline that most of us on the west enjoyed working for.

You should be thankful for the continued employment and the opportunity to spread your misery to so many more people.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Well well I think you are starting to get “it”

Whatever "it" is...

Jim

 

[john john]

Whatever "it" is...

Jim

Something you did your whole career

exercise your DOH with in your pilot group

 

[Bear96]

Relying on a "third party neutral" to decide something as important as a seniority integration when merging two airlines together is a giant "cop-out".

Who besides a neutral should decide it if the parties cannot agree?

 

[BoeingBoy]

exercise your DOH with in your pilot group

Given, but not against other pilot groups. That's why it's called a seniority integration and not a DOH integration. Name another employee group whose income and retirement is largely based on seniority. Not the FA's, not the mechanics, not the rampers, not the customer service.

Jim

 

[Metroyet]

Who besides a neutral should decide it if the parties cannot agree?

Kim Jong Cleary....lol!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Given, but not against other pilot groups. That's why it's called a seniority integration and not a DOH integration. Name another employee group whose income and retirement is largely based on seniority. Not the FA's, not the mechanics, not the rampers, not the customer service.

Jim

Man are YOU wrong again. In those other groups, seniority is EVERYTHING, from the shifts they work to whether they are full or part time, and even if they have a job at all. You're just one of the pilots that believes the drivel they feed you about pilots being part of management. Pilots have ZERO input concerning business planning, how the company spends it's money or posts it to a balance sheet. Yet pilots, especially ALPA pilots, get all high-and-mighty about such things as company financial condition come merger time. Pilots are the ONLY group that uses such stupid criteria in determining seniority integration. And, by the way, IT DOESN'T WORK.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Man are you wrong (again) - it seems to have worked pretty well with DL/NW pilots, and probably with the UA/CO pilots at the end of the day.

So where was I wrong? Does a mechanic working on an A330 make a lot more than a mechanic working on an E190? Does a FA working the 76 from PHL to CLT make a lot more than a FA working the E190? How about the agents - do they get paid a lot more for working a 330 flight than when working a 190 flight? How about those rampers - do they get paid a lot more for loading a 330 than loading a 190?

You may be older but you're certainly no wiser when it comes to seniority. You just want someone to give you the integration you want for any merger, although what you want changes from integration to integration.

Jim

 

[crazystnic]

Relying on a "third party neutral" to decide something as important as a seniority integration when merging two airlines together is a giant "cop-out". ALPA constantly sought to "cover their ass" legally, with their ever changing "merger policies". That's why they are gone. Screw them, West and East should have been locked in a room and thrown red meat until a contact emerged, a vote taken on the results and the inevitable law suits filed. The then "ripe" DFR claims could have been decided by the courts who, as it turns out, we all agree will ultimately make the decision anyway. By now we would all be pulling this wagon in the same direction and both sides would be (hopefully) equally pissed off (as in any "fair" seniority merger), instead of this protracted exercise in self destruction, while the "Dudes" who run this company and pay themselves industry leading wages, while doing so, laugh at us all the way to the bank! We are PILOTS, they are pencil necked bean counters, we should have slugged this out by now and gotten on with the business of moving the metal! Which by the way, is all we have ever been hired to do.

seajay

very well said!

 

[700UW]

Piedmont (ALPA) did what they did to the Empire pilots before USAir even merged with them. The Trump pilots resigned their Eastern seniority numbers as a condition of going to work for "The Donald". The Shuttle pilots got a deal that I haven't heard any of them claim was bad.

seajay

The former EAL Mechanics who resigned to join Trump, sued the IAM and won their seniority in court, the IAM gave them their Trump date and they didnt like that.

Ramey vs IAM DL 141

But this wasnt done in Arbitration.

Case

 

[crazystnic]

So the Congress "copped out" when they passed the federal law covering mergers? Merged seniority lists before deregulation were decided by the CAB - was that a "cop out"? The Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's are used by both ALPA and USAPA - check USAPA's Constitution - so is it still a "cop out".

Look at the legal bills USAPA has run up - is it any surprise that in the post-deregulation environment that ALPA looks after it's own self-interest and takes a hands off position when 2 ALPA carriers merge. The alternative is that ALPA gets sued by one side or the other in every merger of ALPA carriers because no matter what the policy one side or the other thinks ALPA stuck them with the short end of the stick.

Jim

*************************************
I"m so glad I never flew with you! I can just feel your hand reaching over and touching stuff as I fly.....

ALPA was and IS a failure.... They should of had a merger policy that was solid.. That was more set in stone and not just have a policy that has both sides get into a fight and let an arbitrator finally decide... Talk about no leadership!

 

[BoeingBoy]

*************************************
I"m so glad I never flew with you!

Since you're one of the "what's the best way to put more pilots below me and that's what I want" crowd, the feeling is mutual.

Jim

ps - ALPA should have had a solid merger policy - relative position by seat/equip...

 

[RSVP767]

So the Congress "copped out" when they passed the federal law covering mergers? Merged seniority lists before deregulation were decided by the CAB - was that a "cop out"? The Allegheny-Mohawk LPP's are used by both ALPA and USAPA - check USAPA's Constitution - so is it still a "cop out".

Look at the legal bills USAPA has run up - is it any surprise that in the post-deregulation environment that ALPA looks after it's own self-interest and takes a hands off position when 2 ALPA carriers merge. The alternative is that ALPA gets sued by one side or the other in every merger of ALPA carriers because no matter what the policy one side or the other thinks ALPA stuck them with the short end of the stick.

Jim

Yeah, right Jim. Just like the AFA,.....getting sued at every merge over their iron clad, simple, principled, DOH policy.

You see, at the AFA you know what you get. No false expectations. No need for a super duper decoding ring to decipher the policy. Unlike ALPA's nebulous, feel good, touchy feely, policy of the month.

How long did it take the AFA to come up with the merged list for the F/A's? How much did it cost?

Your a real piece of work Jim.

nebulous (neb-ye-les) adj. 1. Cloudy, misty, or hazy. 2. Lacking definite form or limits; unclearly defined or established; vague.

Scary how accurately that word describes ALPA's seniority integration policy!

 

[BoeingBoy]

Yep, ALPA should have insisted on relative position by seat/equip. Then you'd be happy...

Jim

ps - why not just admit you want what's best for you and your peers (which doesn't include the merger partner's pilots)? A least you'd be honest about it and stop trying to convince everyone that you're after some something other than greed.