US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Richard
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Art at ISP
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If I am reading correctly here, if LCC technically acquires AMR, and Parker and Kirby remain in command, there is no COC on the US side, but I'd imagine there would be a COC on the AMA side obviously. Not knowing their contract, I am not sure if that means anything, but it might have to be considered at some point.
That said, what if there was a merger, and Parker and Kirby did NOT take charge? What if there were a merger, and not an acquisition? How would that be considered?
I wish you ALL the best....
That said, what if there was a merger, and Parker and Kirby did NOT take charge? What if there were a merger, and not an acquisition? How would that be considered?
I wish you ALL the best....
Res Judicata
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Little late to hide their true colors. A Jury saw thru them like a window years ago.
Move2CLT
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Easties,
Your leadership has pumped you up only to watch their promises come crashing down time and time again. LOA93, snapbacks, MDA, DOH, Nic dismissal, etc - all failures.
And now they're doing it again with CoC.
Ask them WHY they think CoC will kick in. Why are the only 99% sure? What variable does that 1% represent?
Some stuff to consider and ask your reps about:
The Change of Control provision appears in Section 1(D) 2 of the 1998-2003 US Airways Agreement, and, in general, provides that, if there is a "change of control" with respect to the ownership or management of the Company, "hourly rates of pay will be the greater of the existing rates of pay or the Book Rates." Section 1(D) 2 also gives the Association "in its sole discretion" the right "to extend the Agreement . . . with across-the-board wages increases of four and one half percent (4.5%) on . . . each annual anniversary of the amendable date thereafter."
When this was written, the airline stock was publicly traded. Ownership changed every day. Management changes every few years. CEO's retire, VP's move up the ladder, underperformers are fired, superstars are brought in, bad boys go to jail or divorce court. The only way I can see this, apparently poorly written and illconcieved COC clause kicking in is if the company was taken private in some kind of a LBO, or management buyout, or even an ESOP like United had. Maybe that was the original concern?
Billions are at stake here. It looks like the three surviving network megacarriers, DAL,UAL, and AMR, plus LUV will be aligning their employee costs within a few percentage points of each other, essentially leveling the field of employee compensation. Each will try to get an edge on fuel costs. DAL with a refinery purchase, LUV and UAL with hedging, AMR, if they continue to follow Dougs strategy, paying market rates, due to the correlation of fuel and the economy(jobs, purchasing patterns, stock markets indices, etc.). All have worldwide alliances who are involved, except LUV who has their proprietary program in place(like Apple vs. all of the rest).
In my personal opinion, which pretty much aint worth much, I would say the east contract becomes null and void upon execution of a subsequent CBA, especially given the successor bargining agent will not be ALPA or USAPA. They will have to sue the new company with their own dime and the company will state they no longer have to abide by that agreement as it is no longer an enforceable contract. However, if those provisions are placed in the new contract, which I doubt they will, all bets are off. A new contract will be the enforcable document that will covet the membership. Now didn't I sould somewhat intelligent? I guess that contract law class I took in college paid off.
Your leadership has pumped you up only to watch their promises come crashing down time and time again. LOA93, snapbacks, MDA, DOH, Nic dismissal, etc - all failures.
And now they're doing it again with CoC.
Ask them WHY they think CoC will kick in. Why are the only 99% sure? What variable does that 1% represent?
Some stuff to consider and ask your reps about:
The Change of Control provision appears in Section 1(D) 2 of the 1998-2003 US Airways Agreement, and, in general, provides that, if there is a "change of control" with respect to the ownership or management of the Company, "hourly rates of pay will be the greater of the existing rates of pay or the Book Rates." Section 1(D) 2 also gives the Association "in its sole discretion" the right "to extend the Agreement . . . with across-the-board wages increases of four and one half percent (4.5%) on . . . each annual anniversary of the amendable date thereafter."
When this was written, the airline stock was publicly traded. Ownership changed every day. Management changes every few years. CEO's retire, VP's move up the ladder, underperformers are fired, superstars are brought in, bad boys go to jail or divorce court. The only way I can see this, apparently poorly written and illconcieved COC clause kicking in is if the company was taken private in some kind of a LBO, or management buyout, or even an ESOP like United had. Maybe that was the original concern?
Billions are at stake here. It looks like the three surviving network megacarriers, DAL,UAL, and AMR, plus LUV will be aligning their employee costs within a few percentage points of each other, essentially leveling the field of employee compensation. Each will try to get an edge on fuel costs. DAL with a refinery purchase, LUV and UAL with hedging, AMR, if they continue to follow Dougs strategy, paying market rates, due to the correlation of fuel and the economy(jobs, purchasing patterns, stock markets indices, etc.). All have worldwide alliances who are involved, except LUV who has their proprietary program in place(like Apple vs. all of the rest).
In my personal opinion, which pretty much aint worth much, I would say the east contract becomes null and void upon execution of a subsequent CBA, especially given the successor bargining agent will not be ALPA or USAPA. They will have to sue the new company with their own dime and the company will state they no longer have to abide by that agreement as it is no longer an enforceable contract. However, if those provisions are placed in the new contract, which I doubt they will, all bets are off. A new contract will be the enforcable document that will covet the membership. Now didn't I sould somewhat intelligent? I guess that contract law class I took in college paid off.
"Only one eastie posting and I see others logged on here.
I wonder if they've been told to stand-down from the boards."
An interesting excuse for a "mind" you have there. Who would be "telling" anyone such BS? No matter =Typical.
If the merger does go through; I've no thought that the COC language can't/won't be gotten around, yet again. Serpents have evolved and survived for ages largely due to their ability to slither under or around any obstacles.
As for your equally non-sensical: "Your leadership has pumped you up...", well...sigh...I haven't ever gotten so much as a "way-cool-dude" T shirt from them during any of this, and I've yet to be told we're all "heroic Spartan warriors" in the...umm..."army" of leonidas by any of them
I wonder if they've been told to stand-down from the boards."
An interesting excuse for a "mind" you have there. Who would be "telling" anyone such BS? No matter =Typical.
If the merger does go through; I've no thought that the COC language can't/won't be gotten around, yet again. Serpents have evolved and survived for ages largely due to their ability to slither under or around any obstacles.
As for your equally non-sensical: "Your leadership has pumped you up...", well...sigh...I haven't ever gotten so much as a "way-cool-dude" T shirt from them during any of this, and I've yet to be told we're all "heroic Spartan warriors" in the...umm..."army" of leonidas by any of them
Move2CLT
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Of all the easties to pop their head out of their hole, it had to be you.
Sigh.
As for the company getting around the COC, if you actually peruse it you'll find that they don't need to get around anything. There is no change of control at US Airways.
You're being lied to again east and your eating it up...
...again.
Sigh.
As for the company getting around the COC, if you actually peruse it you'll find that they don't need to get around anything. There is no change of control at US Airways.
You're being lied to again east and your eating it up...
...again.
OK move2CLT....The problem is now obvious. You can't even read, can you? What part of "If the merger does go through; I've no thought that the COC language can't/won't be gotten around, yet again." gives you any..umm..."thoughts" that I believe any COC issues would/will arise?
As per your brilliant: "You're being lied to again east and your eating it up..." well...kindly expand on that, if you can. As for whatever strange substance(s) you're "eating up"....I'll pass on any of that stuff....can't be good for a person.
As per your brilliant: "You're being lied to again east and your eating it up..." well...kindly expand on that, if you can. As for whatever strange substance(s) you're "eating up"....I'll pass on any of that stuff....can't be good for a person.
Portly Dorman
Senior
But we get to pick and chose what sections apply and what doesn't.
If it helps the west....NO
If it allows us to over reach, over play our hand or just make us look like know it alls....YES!
Marching orders from the bunker...muck this up as much as you can!!
Hummel is powerless and the racist is running the show...
The eastern and their friends are watching the western division realize what is coming down. You appear to be frightened about the potential merger.
Metroyet
Veteran
- Nov 1, 2008
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Hello Crack-Ton,
Care to wager how much,(little) your ALPA provided CoC clause is going to be worth? I'm willing to bet a Grande Cup of black coffee at Starbucks turns out to be infinitely more valuable. IOW, CoC will be fully 100% useless, worthless, and made wholly irrelevant. Just like your dear (fake) union.
Move2CLT
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OK east, your problem has been obvious - you're verbose. So much so that you can't remember what you write because your thoughts get lost in the thousands of words you literary diahreha You post here.
I was referring to this:
"Serpents have evolved and survived for ages largely due to their ability to slither under or around any obstacles"
With that you assume the CoC is an obstacle. If you'd put in a bit of effort and read your own language you'd see that Parker's takeover doesn't trigger a CoC thus there is. O obstacle.
Like everything else, you're being lied to.
Nothing USAPA has promised has materialized yet you continue to follow them toward the cliff.
Nice work.
Can't wait for your verbose reply.
Move2CLT: "OK east, your problem has been obvious..."
Sigh! If you're honestly just too plain stupid to understand that I was agreeing with the idea that no COC issues would be involved....then there's simply no hope for you. Even attempted conversation with the proverbial sea sponge would be less a complete waste of time.
Is that sufficiently succint?
Sigh! If you're honestly just too plain stupid to understand that I was agreeing with the idea that no COC issues would be involved....then there's simply no hope for you. Even attempted conversation with the proverbial sea sponge would be less a complete waste of time.
Is that sufficiently succint?
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