US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

The arbitration happened and proves my point that neutral, trained professional arbitrators said four time in a row that slotting is fair and DOH is not.

As I stated before, SLI's left the arbitrator's desk as slotted lists.

However, in the real world, just like: 1) the TWA pilot's winning their case, which was a worse case than being slotted by equipment.....2) Frontier/Republic is not an up and running SLI with slotting...., and 3) AAA/AWA is yet to be determined. It is not a proven track record, and for you to promote it as such is a false statement.

Every time you make that statement you are insulting your former colleagues, meaning the professionals that you have worked with for more than 20 years. You and Move2Clt have a common sense of loyality. It's all about you, nothing else matters. Forget the time invested by your brothers and sisters in this career. I have 3 sons and a daughter.....I can't tell you how many baseball games and other activities with my kids that I had to miss over the years because of my job. And you're gonna tell me that it doesn't matter! NOT!

According to Move, time invested doesn't mean squat! According to you guys, "it's the new world order" and all of the years invested by your brothers and sisters isn't important. That is so full of crap!

I hope someone will shoot me before I am associated with your's and Move's attitude!

That is where you are wrong.

We wouldn't be having this argument if you wouldn't throw your statement in our faces every chance you get, implying that arbitration is the "new world order".

Quit trying to stack the deck!

breeze

 

[Zone5]

I think "Dougie" is going to successfully put a deal together to combine USAirways and American Airlines.

I also think that, somehow, a year or so from now we will have THREE pilot groups, operating under ONE name with three separate contracts. Team Tempe did it once and they want to do it again.

Whats better than two pilot groups fighting each other? THREE!

"Dougie" will give the American pilots what he has to, to do the deal, complete with all the "assurances" that he wants a JCBA for all. Problem is, that just won't happen. It will be another, "Oh well, I really wish you pilots could, just get along, in the mean time, I've got mine. Let me know when you boys have that seniority thing worked out." He doesn't need East or West "permission" to cut a deal with American.

It's not like he doesn't have a lot of experience operating two airlines with the same paint job! What's one more added to the mix? The lost "synergies" don't even come close to the labor cost savings.


seajay

 

[spike99]

The arbitration happened and proves my point that neutral, trained professional arbitrators said four time in a row that slotting is fair and DOH is not.

Feel free to monitor my posts and folllow my stats with yours about how many have been implemented.

Trader, do you believe each seniority integration turns on it's own merits? Can you provide the number of furloughed pilots in each of your slotted arbitrations. Do any of them place more furloughed pilots below the entire list of one of the groups? If you believe the furloughed pilots should not be considered, make sure you let the APA and the west supporters know where their furloughed pilots should go.

Spike

 

[A320 Driver]

I also think that, somehow, a year or so from now we will have THREE pilot groups, operating under ONE name with three separate contracts. Team Tempe did it once and they want to do it again.

Whats better than two pilot groups fighting each other? THREE!

"Dougie" will give the American pilots what he has to, to do the deal, complete with all the "assurances" that he wants a JCBA for all. Problem is, that just won't happen. It will be another, "Oh well, I really wish you pilots could, just get along, in the mean time, I've got mine. Let me know when you boys have that seniority thing worked out." He doesn't need East or West "permission" to cut a deal with American.

It's not like he doesn't have a lot of experience operating two airlines with the same paint job! What's one more added to the mix? The lost "synergies" don't even come close to the labor cost savings.

seajay

I watched the PowerPoint presentation Parker put on...very impressive. His stated goal is to put two airlines together that will have the revenue making capability on par with Delta and United. His pitch was simple. Make this merger happen and you can enjoy an industry standard contract with pay and benefits in the same ballpark with Delta/United or remain a stand alone carrier with a substandard contract.

The USAPA reps indicated that they were in favor of this but they want a partnership with APA to make sure on the day of the merger ALL pilots work under one contract. Parker said it could be done. The legal guy said if American management came on board this could be a reality by the end of the year. My question from the start had been, what is in it for American? That question was answered during the slide presentation. They can't sustain themselves without a substantial cut in workforce and pay. There is NO WAY they can match Parkers offer to their unions and stay in business.

The only real negative I saw during the meeting was when the CLT FO rep came to the back of the room and started whispering to other pilots, "see what your president is doing?" He was refering to a point of order where the seniority issue was brought up and Hummel basically said this meeting wasn't the time to deal with it. I thought he made a good call personally but the backbiting has already started (or continuing).

Anyway, it looked like a good deal for the employees of both groups if the presentation was correct. Pay, benefits and job security...something we haven't seen for a LONG time.

Hey!!! You CLT guys! You need to reel in that ****head rep you have there. That is JUST the sort of BS that got us where we are right now.

Driver...

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I think "Dougie" is going to successfully put a deal together to combine USAirways and American Airlines.

I also think that, somehow, a year or so from now we will have THREE pilot groups, operating under ONE name with three separate contracts. Team Tempe did it once and they want to do it again.

Whats better than two pilot groups fighting each other? THREE!

"Dougie" will give the American pilots what he has to, to do the deal, complete with all the "assurances" that he wants a JCBA for all. Problem is, that just won't happen. It will be another, "Oh well, I really wish you pilots could, just get along, in the mean time, I've got mine. Let me know when you boys have that seniority thing worked out." He doesn't need East or West "permission" to cut a deal with American.

It's not like he doesn't have a lot of experience operating two airlines with the same paint job! What's one more added to the mix? The lost "synergies" don't even come close to the labor cost savings.


seajay

Seajay, I disagree DOUGIE will fail when the "REAL MONEY" shows up, that being said, Did you check out the "SCOPE" and branding provision in the APA agreement with DUI, very scary, NO wonder he wants our COC provision!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I watched the PowerPoint presentation Parker put on...very impressive. His stated goal is to put two airlines together that will have the revenue making capability on par with Delta and United.

Anyway, it looked like a good deal for the employees of both groups if the presentation was correct. Pay, benefits and job security...something we haven't seen for a LONG time.

Hey!!! You CLT guys! You need to reel in that ****head rep you have there. That is JUST the sort of BS that got us where we are right now.

Driver...

Have you looked at our balance sheet lately? Reel in CLT?, This is the BS that brought you LOA93, LOSS OF PENSION, and if you don't watch out loss of our COC, now why do you think in 60 DAYS DUI will give us a global grievance settlement, OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART! REALITY CHECK PLEEZ!

 

[Zone5]

I watched the PowerPoint presentation Parker put on...very impressive. His stated goal is to put two airlines together that will have the revenue making capability on par with Delta and United. His pitch was simple. Make this merger happen and you can enjoy an industry standard contract with pay and benefits in the same ballpark with Delta/United or remain a stand alone carrier with a substandard contract.

The USAPA reps indicated that they were in favor of this but they want a partnership with APA to make sure on the day of the merger ALL pilots work under one contract. Parker said it could be done. The legal guy said if American management came on board this could be a reality by the end of the year. My question from the start had been, what is in it for American? That question was answered during the slide presentation. They can't sustain themselves without a substantial cut in workforce and pay. There is NO WAY they can match Parkers offer to their unions and stay in business.

The only real negative I saw during the meeting was when the CLT FO rep came to the back of the room and started whispering to other pilots, "see what your president is doing?" He was refering to a point of order where the seniority issue was brought up and Hummel basically said this meeting wasn't the time to deal with it. I thought he made a good call personally but the backbiting has already started (or continuing).

Anyway, it looked like a good deal for the employees of both groups if the presentation was correct. Pay, benefits and job security...something we haven't seen for a LONG time.

Hey!!! You CLT guys! You need to reel in that ****head rep you have there. That is JUST the sort of BS that got us where we are right now.

Driver...

No doubt "Dougie" can put together one hell of a good power point presentation! He can blow smoke with the best of them, almost as well as Obama! But, as with all accomplished "speech-a-fiers", it's never about what they say, it's about what they do.

Essentially all, of the major operating benefits of "combining" these three pilot groups can be achieved WITHOUT actually reaching a JCBA. "Dougie" knows this because he has already done it once and in doing so has achieved operating results he would not have even come close to, had he not.

It really is amazing how gullible pilots can be and how much people underestimate "Team Tempe" to this day, even after all we've seen so far. I don't think he really cares whether or not the pilots are on board, if anything, I think he would prefer to see a bigger "food fight" than he has going now, it would be more........cost effective. He already has both the East and the West tied up with an injunction and if memory serves me right, American has one on their pilots also! In Parker's world, it just don't get much better than that.

Like I said before, he will tell labor at American what they want to hear, give give them just enough to get their support, throw in a little "eye wash" for the rest of us and "get-er done". He just doesn't really need or necessarily even want our "cooperation" to do so! Why do you think we didn't even find out about this deal until after it was already hammered out? I say it's because he knows he can do it without us.


seajay

 

[usfliboi]

Have you looked at our balance sheet lately? Reel in CLT?, This is the BS that brought you LOA93, LOSS OF PENSION, and if you don't watch out loss of our COC, now why do you think in 60 DAYS DUI will give us a global grievance settlement, OUT OF THE KINDNESS OF HIS HEART! REALITY CHECK PLEEZ!

In my humble opinion both Pilot and F/a groups will be operating under one airline name and one contract whether some like that or not.... It will be interesting how long it will take Usairways pilots to come together and fight as one group when they are out numbered by the AA group! Hey just saying!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

In my humble opinion both Pilot and F/a groups will be operating under one airline name and one contract whether some like that or not.... It will be interesting how long it will take Usairways pilots to come together and fight as one group when they are out numbered by the AA group! Hey just saying!

Well that opinion lasted you right up to the last F/A vote didn't it? I didn't say I never wouldn't like it , it is DUI DOUG that can never make it happen! Take a seat and when the "REAL MONEY" shows up, the show will start!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hey, why did HUMMEL table the vote and not let PHL REP JAMIE WEIDNER vote in the NAC Committee to let FERGIE on? MM! Just a CLT OBSERVER!

 

[Phoenix]

All the pilot euphoria (and not just the APA) surrounding Doug is a testament to his salesmanship.

There appears to be an enthusiasm and urgency building that has little room for reflection on such cumbersome council as "Buyer beware,lest buyer remorse." He really has been altruistic at heart, and as long as we have faith it will bare out to be a boon for even the most junior employee.

Cake for everyone to eat! Bring your fork (it has various uses).

 

[Metroyet]

In my humble opinion both Pilot and F/a groups will be operating under one airline name and one contract whether some like that or not.... It will be interesting how long it will take Usairways pilots to come together and fight as one group when they are out numbered by the AA group! Hey just saying!

The West is going to join up with the APA at the first opportunity. That will be the one group to overwhelm the East by a vast majority. Whatever kills USAPA the fastest is the path the West will take.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

The West is going to join up with the APA at the first opportunity. That will be the one group to overwhelm the East by a vast majority. Whatever kills USAPA the fastest is the path the West will take.

The AOL and USAPA

THE AOL and USAPA meet on the bank of a stream and AOL asks USAPA to carry them across on their back. USAPA asks, "How do I know you won't sting me?" AND AOL
says, "Because if I do, I will die too."

GARY HUMMEL is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream,
the AOL stings the USAPA. AND USAPA feels the onset of
paralysis and starts to sink, knowing they both will drown,
but has just enough time to gasp "Why?"

Replies the AOL: "Its my nature and my lottery ticket!

 

[Hate2fly]

Hey, why did HUMMEL table the vote and not let PHL REP JAMIE WEIDNER vote in the NAC Committee to let FERGIE on? MM! Just a CLT OBSERVER!

MM,

The Compass Boys were probably wetting themselves. Jamie would be the deciding vote to place Fergie on the NAC. So they called timeout and will try to take care of Fergie at the next meeting. Don't worry the grievance chairman and vice chairman are all set to do great things. What a joke!

Hate

 

[Zone5]

The West is going to join up with the APA at the first opportunity. That will be the one group to overwhelm the East by a vast majority. Whatever kills USAPA the fastest is the path the West will take.

You really don't get the big picture here. This is just the kind of attitude that gets "Team Tempe" high five-ing it in the board room. I can just hear them now: " Can you believe these pilots?!, more law suits and labor cost savings to the moon!" As many West pilots have pointed out, the minority can drag out reaching a JCBA for a looooooong time, DFR actions cut both ways. Just ask ALPA about TWA.

"Team Tempe" probably already has the "I sure wish you pilots could just get along" speech ready. Fact of the matter is, they would rather we not!


seajay