US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

The arbitrators of the last four pilot seniority arbitrations say you're wrong.

Yeah, like they got it right, with only 50% of the arbitrations being used today!

breeze

 

[Black Swan]

Is Mikey Stein coming back to the West or UAL?

 

[cleardirect]

Wonderful...now, as for ALL of union history?....Hmmm..shall we just start with the AFA, for example?...Teamsters?...Coal Miners?...ANY/All others?....Or; doesn't anything other than your magical 4 count?

Bottom line = Try telling ANYONE in ANY semblance of a serious union that it's all just "relative"...Get back to us all on how that works for you.

We can compare and contrast how other union do it as soon as pilots get paid the same way those other union get paid.

When a 5-10-15-20 year guys get paid the same. Regardless of seat or equipment you might have a point. But we don't get paid that way. A MX does not get pay differantly depending on the aircraft he works on. A gate agent does not get a 40% pay bump because of the base (seat) they work from.

So comparing how other union integrate is pointless.

 

[EastUS1]

We can compare and contrast how other union do it as soon as pilots get paid the same way those other union get paid.

When a 5-10-15-20 year guys get paid the same. Regardless of seat or equipment you might have a point. But we don't get paid that way. A MX does not get pay differicial depending on the aircraft he works on. A gate agent does not get a 40% pay bump because of the base (seat) they work from.

So comparing how other union integrate is pointless.

"So comparing how other union integrate is pointless." How very "convenient" indeed. In other words...pilots are somehow "special", and thus; exempt from such droll notions as actual unionism (as well as common sense, it would seem)....I see now Indeed, those "special" qualities travel light years past full explanation of how and why the once great "profession" has fallen to it's current, pathetic level....and thanks for assisting in that, btw

 

[cleardirect]

Yes, they made that correct observation. Their legal opinion absolutely made it patently clear the Nic does NOT have to be the list.

Read the entire quote. It does not have to be the Nicolau as long as it does not harm the west like we fear something else will. If usap could come up with something that does not harm the west give it a try. But so far DOH and worthless C&R do harm the west.

The safe play would be to use the Nicolau and not worry about. What has usapa offer that even comes close to not harming the west?

Nothing!

 

[mrbreeze]

And amazingly APA has younger members more senior than east pilots too. So they may not want DOH as much as some think...

By the time APA is the only union, the seniority list question will be answered and the company will be moving forward and not interested in revisiting the past.

Jim

Agreed.....I think Parker will just push the merger on through and let the whole mess go to a new arbitrator, allowing Dougie to sidestep any legal SLI problems. I mean, after all, he doesn't give a rat's ### about any of us.

breeze

 

[cleardirect]

"So comparing how other union integrate is pointless." How very "convenient" indeed. In other words...pilots are somehow "special", and thus; exempt from such droll notions as actual unionism (as well as common sense, it would seem)....I see now Indeed, those "special" qualities travel light years in fullest explantion of how and why the once great "profession" has fallen to it's current, pathetic level....and thanks for assisting that, btw

special, different whatever you want to call it. We are not a union we an association. And we do get paid differently.

I think that usapa and you east pilots have clearly demonstrated how not to be a unified.

It was you east pilots that lead the charge to the bottom.

 

[Freighterguynow]

There will likely be no need since the Nic is the only officially accepted integrated seniority list for US. Much like an LOA, once the union proposed the Nic and the company accepted it, the Nic became the only possible integrated list (thanks to USAPA's STS application). A LOA can be later incorporated into the underlying contract or never incorporated into the underlying contract - it's still binding on all the parties. Just like the Nic, so you can forget all about ratification votes, etc. They only matter for the timing of when the Nic can be used, as per the LOA called the transition agreement.

Jim

All valid points but the fact remains the top two officers in the company have repeatedly stated the opposite . Which was a merger. With United would've triggered a three way seniority integration starting all over.

Well see!

 

[EastUS1]

Agreed.....I think Parker will just push the merger on through and let the whole mess go to a new arbitrator, allowing Dougie to sidestep any legal SLI problems. I mean, after all, he doesn't give a rat's ### about any of us.

breeze

I'd think that his easiest "move" = "Huh?...Whatta' you mean!!??...This was all between the unions! It's their business!...I didn't do any of it!...It ain't my fault!!"

 

[BoeingBoy]

Wonderful...now, as for ALL of union history?....Hmmm..shall we just start with the AFA, for example?...Teamsters?...Coal Miners?...ANY/All others?....Or; doesn't anything other than your magical 4 count?

Bottom line = Try telling ANYONE in ANY semblance of a serious union that it's all just "relative"...Get back to us all on how that works for you.

Maybe you should change jobs....

I guess you don't consider the APA a "semblance of a serious union" since it's been mentioned about a possible US merger that "if you're at 50% of your fleet before the merger you'll be at 50% after the merger" (paraphrasing)....

Maybe you can even cite where in M-B it states that DOH/LOS is the only method of fairly integrating employees in a merger. Or does the law take a back seat to your situational desires in a merger "relative" to who you're being merged with....

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

We are not a union we an association..

"....not a union..." Sigh! I think we're done here......

 

[EastUS1]

Maybe you should change jobs....

It won't be all that long, but I won't be taking yours, so no need to fret Post retirement?...This board won't be a tiny blip on my radar

"I guess you don't consider the APA a "semblance of a serious union" Apparently, they too are but one of Clear's referenced umm..."associations". What's your point?

 

[BoeingBoy]

This board won't be a tiny blip on my radar

I'll take that as meaning another user name is in your future...

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

I'll take that as meaning another user name is in your future...

Jim

Negative. Post retirement?...Unlike "some"?....I'lll still have a life

 

[Freighterguynow]

It was the AWA contract we all had to drop down to in BK2