US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

You east guys were so concerned that it would be west pilots spouting off about saving American. Turns out it is the arrogant east PHL rep that said it first.

Even the Hillbilly reps are beginning to understand what is plainly obvious. Parker doesn't need them one bit. He totally ignored USAPA as he should. They're worthless, the antithesis of any notions of a productive relationship. He isn't going to waste a breath consulting with USAPA. If they're lucky, they might get invited to the table to be kept appraised of new developments but most likely, as confirmed in the CLT update, they're going to be getting all their news from the Internet.

I love how CLT reps say they aren't willing to pay for someone else's career expectations...didn't they form a fake union to illegally impose that very act upon some other pilot group?

Good riddance USAPA, may deaths warm embrace smother you at the earliest opportunity.

 

[dca319]

USA320Pilot

Sorry - no I don't get it.

In your post #38685, what document are you citing with regard to "friendly takeover' of one union by another?

Not sure I understand how APA filing a petition will decertify USAPA simply because they are larger, or because we have secured STS.

If the NMB determines that there is a dominant union on the property it can declare that union the CBA for the entire group. I do believe this happened with the mechanics.

 

[dca319]

You east guys were so concerned that it would be west pilots spouting off about saving American. Turns out it is the arrogant east PHL rep that said it first.

Most embarrassing. How quickly we have forgotten our own situation. The CLT repa are now alienating the APA just as they've alienated the west and the company. It's time for these individuals to be removed.

 

[Piedmont1984]

If the NMB determines that there is a dominant union on the property it can declare that union the CBA for the entire group. I do believe this happened with the mechanics.

Would this not circumvent McCaskill-Bond?

 

[dca319]

My problem with all this is the USA320pilot types that are posting on here saying we need to do this or do that, take the NIC etc when this is FAR from a done deal.

The ONLY group that has expressed interest in doing anything with Parker is the AA unions. And they are just looking for bright spots wherever they can find them just like we were 10 years ago.

As far as I have seen and read the money people and AA mgmt. are all against the deal or "keeping options open".

I think the CoC stuff mentioned in the CLT update is a bit of wishful thinking, HOWEVER the the numbers they referenced about retirements are not. In December the retirements crank up and never slow down for the next 14 years. We have 1500 + going by end of decade just on the east. Considering that 2/3 of the active east pilots are either "hosed" or "really hosed" in a NIC scenario makes it very dangerous counting on a merger that for now is nothing more than talk.

We get on a "merger mania" kick and start signing stuff assuming that this merger will go through AND assuming that Parker has honerable intentions concerning the USAirways pilot group(east and west) I think is a recipe for getting burned real bad.

Remember the other "big" mergers. United=FAIL, Delta=FAIL

Kerosene what is it that you think we are going to sign off on? East agrees as do I that we are not a part of this process. If we were needed, Parker would have come to us long ago. And you mentioned the CoC as wishful thinking. I agree and will add that it's pandering as well. Just the usual strategy of distraction. Our reps in CLT will only do harm be alieniating the APA who is negotiating our contract ad we speak.

 

[dca319]

Would this not circumvent McCaskill-Bond?

No it would not. From what I am told this CBA decision comes after a list is arbitrated. So other than submitting a list, we don't do much. I hope I have said this correctly.

 

[Piedmont1984]

dca319

If CoC will not be triggered in this transaction - and if APA petitions the NMB successfully to declare itself the CBA, then any protests or threats from CLT or 2/3 of PHL are irrelevant, constituting nothing more than background noise.

If, however, you are concerned that they may indeed jeopardize this transaction, then you are implying they have the wherewithal to do so in the first place - which lends credence to their concerns and veiled threats.

Which is it?

 

[dca319]

dca319

If CoC will not be triggered in this transaction - and if APA petitions the NMB successfully to declare itself the CBA, then any protests or threats from CLT or 2/3 of PHL are irrelevant, constituting nothing more than background noise.

If, however, you are concerned that they may indeed jeopardize this transaction, then you are implying they have the wherewithal to do so in the first place - which lends credence to their concerns and veiled threats.

Which is it?

I do not discount the potential threat of our reps bugling this. The reason I have two contradicting views is because I'm not knowledgable to what is going on so I don't know what all the possibilities are. I'm just keeping an open mind. It I'm leaning more toward them not being able to do anything. But they can alienate the APA, don't you think?

 

[Piedmont1984]

I do not discount the potential threat of our reps bugling this. The reason I have two contradicting views is because I'm not knowledgable to what is going on so I don't know what all the possibilities are. I'm just keeping an open mind. It I'm leaning more toward them not being able to do anything. But they can alienate the APA, don't you think?

Alienate - yes. Obstruct - I think not. Too much at stake. What could happen is that APA will punish its sassy stepchild, or threaten to do so.

I certainly don't want my reps and leadership to fold, just to keep the goal in sight at all times.

Just because APA is twice our size doesn't mean they can or will roll over us. Like em or hate em - AOL deserves credit and should serve as a lesson.

 

[EastUS1]

That's how it is in a civilized society. People honor the rule of law. They abide by arbitrators and judges rulings even though they may not like said rulings.

OK...now THAT was hilarious! Ummm..."a civilized society". Where does one find one of those outside of Fantasyland? Firstly; this particular "civilized society" birthed it's self in the usual warfare and mass slaughter, so very popular amongst the human species as to be almost our primary hobby, and, at no point in history, not found to be raging somewhere on this planet. Secondly; Had the founding fathers cared the least bit for the existent "rule of law"; this nation wouldn't even exist. Even that "civilized society", produced by some of the finest minds and best concepts ever put forth in human government....still embraced slavery, no voting rights for women,etc. Take nothing in that wrong, as I firmly believe that the USA marks the high water mark to date in humanity's social evolution, but to pretend ourselves, or ANY to be, or have ever been truly "a civilized society" is an amusing notion at best. Would a "civilized society" have so many of it's citizens locked away in prisons for no "violent crime", other than putting substances not "officially prescribed" by others into their own bodies? Would a "civilized society" first put you through the absurdity of TSA "screening" to ensure you had nothing "dangerous" on your person...only to, moments later, toss you the "keys to the plane", crash axe,etc?...or; are such behaviors more indicative of a typically insane society?. One must laugh sometimes at the truly exalted nature of your glorious "rule of law", that you so enthusiastically sound trumpets for. In truth, throughout history, the rule of law has amounted to little more than an embellishment of then current social "fashion". You perhaps DO realize that, to this very day, the "charge" of "witchcraft" can result in a person's death at points on our planet?..That "adultery" can certainly get one "legally" murdered in many areas,etc?..That so much as expressing "heretical" beliefs can do the same?

I must suppose it comes down to personal notions as to what "civilized" should be. Yours evidently revolve around the ready acceptance of "visions"/decrees from selected tribal shamans/arbitrators as the defining element of "civilized" behavior. Yes indeed, calling forth the local witch doctor to read the "signs" and decide the tribe's path must needs be the true hallmark of "civilized" I suppose.

In my estimation; "civilized" must come from within any person, and requires some degree of actual respect and reasonable concern for others.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PHX Domicile Update: April 26, 2012

Dear Phoenix-based pilots,

We appreciate your patience over the last few days and apologize for the apparent dearth of information from your representatives. You can imagine the workload as of late due to the change of administrations at USAPA and the recent high-profile announcement which has the industry abuzz. Frankly, there has been little time to write anything while each of us has been on the telephone almost non-stop over the last week. Look for more regular communications as things begin to settle down. In this update, we will briefly discuss a small handful of hot topics.

Potential American Airlines Merger:

No doubt you have read the latest USAPA update regarding the announcement from three American Airlines unions pertaining to a possible merger with US Airways. It goes without saying that this is really big news, and we humbly suggest that you keep up with the schedule of activities. Things could certainly get very interesting, very fast. A two-hour BPR Informational Conference Call was held Monday night. It was illuminating. It is clear that events are moving at a blistering pace, and the AA pilots on the call were well-educated, informed, and ready to move against American Airlines management preemptively. In short, our AA counterparts seem extremely focused and detail oriented. Please read the Communications' Recap for an overview of Monday evening's conference call.

Committee Appointments:

Your PHX Representatives have made a considerable number of recommendations for various committees as a result of the solicitation of President Hummel. We know you will be keenly interested to see those recommendations when acted upon. Things have changed so fast that we feel President Hummel should be afforded some latitude and just a little time to effect those changes. We are encouraged by his actions so far, and await further positive steps towards bringing this pilot group together. We do expect to inform you of more additions, and some other changes to the committee structure soon. During the next few weeks and months, we fully expect to have additional PHX pilots joining more committees.

Company:

We understand that there are many things that we collectively would like to change here at US Airways. We are not "company apologists," but we do feel there is a need to remind ourselves of the common interests we share with Management in many areas.

One example of common interest can be found in the Professional Standards Committee. The Company and USAPA have made great strides lately to ensure our Management pilots and our Professional Standards volunteers are skilled and will remain properly trained in dealing with our pilot issues. In a cooperative effort with your Union, the Company recently committed to paying a large portion of the costs in order to send our Pro Standards members and chief pilots to continuing education and skill development. This is a major investment by US Airways and we would like to thank Captain Hogg for his willingness to invest in this vital program. US Airways, and its pilots, should find this to be a worthwhile expenditure.

Another area of common interest with the Company is the HIMS (Human Intervention and Motivation Study) program. Our HIMS Committee, in conjunction with our Chief Pilot's Office, continues to do fantastic work. This only works as a COOPERATIVE effort, and it is working! Thanks to everyone involved. Without the continued efforts of our chief pilots and assistant chief pilots, as well as our outstanding volunteers, there would be many pilots left to fend for themselves and their families. It is probably the quietest and most discreet committee and is not often discussed, but it is literally priceless. I can attest from my time in the office, as well as my time doing UNION work, the Company has done everything in its power to empower our employees and provide them with the tools they need to deal with these types of personal issues. Be sure to stop by the office and say "thanks."

In addition, ASAP, Safety, and FOQA are all committees that are mutually beneficial to ALL the employees of US Airways and its Management. Pilot input is pivotal in identifying safety issues system-wide. As you know, our pilots are involved in almost every aspect of the airline's operation. ASAP, like HIMS, is one of the "silent" programs that affect all of us almost every day but is never out in the forefront.

So what is the point of all this?

To remind everyone that we have a mutual, intimate, and very important role in our destinies which is shared with Management. We should strive to work together and function as a team as much as possible. This does NOT mean that we have to agree on everything, but it still means we must function. This is no different than flying the plane. The stakes are too high and too important to allow differences to stifle these well-functioning committees.

On another note, we would like to commend the professionalism our PHX pilots continue to exude. It has been exemplary, and we believe many of our fellow employees have noticed. Please continue to maintain this positive and professional demeanor.

In closing, we would like to remind everyone there is a Special BPR Meeting planned to start this Monday, April 30, at the USAPA Headquarters in CLT. If you happen to layover at our new Four Points Sheraton Hotel, we encourage you to walk over to the USAPA offices. This will give you an opportunity to see the new office, attend a BPR meeting in person, and witness for yourself what few PHX pilots have seen.

Additional updates to follow soon as the fast moving changes occur.

Fraternally,

Chairman John Scherff
Vice-Chairman Roger Velez
Vice-Chairman David Simmons


PHL Domicile Update: April 26, 2012

Philadelphia Pilots --

As you know, on Monday the BPR conducted an Informational Conference Call with the Allied Pilots Association (APA) Vice President Tony Chapman and Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair, along with our attorneys and key committee members. You can read Communications' Recap of that call by clicking here. Below you'll find our individual opinions of where we are in this process and what we thought of our initial contact with the APA.

Please contact us directly with questions and input as we work on your behalf during this time of potential opportunity.

Fraternally,

PHL Domicile Representatives
PHL@usairlinepilots.org

From Chairman Steve Szpyrka:

Pilots,

The USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives and several of USAPA's committees had a conference call on Monday evening with the Allied Pilots Association. Presiding over the meeting was USAPA President Gary Hummel. On the call were APA Vice President Tony Chapman and APA Negotiating Chairman Neal Roghair. This was the first of many meetings that will transpire. The meeting was very cordial and well received by everyone on the call. The tone was very positive and uplifting. Both Tony and Neal displayed a very positive tone throughout the call and they were very excited about the possibility of our two pilot groups working as one. The next meetings will take place in New York City between the respective merger committees, attorneys, negotiating committees, and Officers. We will keep you advised.

We've given some thought to a Philadelphia Domicile Meeting to be held soon, however, with the upcoming Vice Chairman Special Runoff Election, we feel the best course of action would be to wait until the election is concluded and then officially welcome the incoming Vice Chairman. Also, the timing would be better because we will be further along in the process of evaluating the situation with the APA and will have more to report. We will plan on having the key players from USAPA attend that meeting so you can hear it straight from the source.

I would also like to take this opportunity to comment on the large number of emails that I have recently received regarding a whole host of issues. The one issue that I would like to comment on is the perceived disunity in the leadership of USAPA. Fellow pilots, it is time for all of us to stop the divisiveness and focus on the goal which we all strive to achieve as professional airline pilots.

Wherever these early merger discussions take us, rest assured we understand the importance of making the best of any opportunity for the pilots of USAPA and perhaps joining forces with our friends at APA to become a world-class airline.

Fly safe,

Steve "Spike" Szpyrka
PHL Chairman

From Vice Chairman (DDR) Jamie Weidner:

After the BPR Conference Call of April 23, 2012 regarding the potential AA/LCC merger, I have a few thoughts that I would like to discuss here. First, the APA has been negotiating with our Management in earnest for about one month to come up with the Conditional Labor Agreement that could be the basis for a contract for the two combined airlines going forward. This was done without consulting or including any input from USAPA. We do not yet know all of the details that are in the document. This warrants caution on our part, as there are things in our contract that I am sure the APA is not aware of that we would not want to change. For example, they have agreed to preferential bidding but I have no idea what the parameters are, and I would think we would want to retain the bid sheet. This represents only one area that needs to be better defined in order to be able to tell what is in the agreement.

Second, we have some conditions of our own that must be met and they will need to be included in our Conditional Transition Agreement. We need to start working on that Conditional Transition Agreement ASAP. Hopefully, we will be well on our way to having a good list of conditions at the end of our expected BPR meeting next week.

I am cautiously optimistic that this potential merger will greatly enhance the careers of all of our pilots going forward. However, it will require exhaustive investigation, careful consideration of all of the facts, and thoughtful guidance as we manage through the process.

Respectfully,

Jamie A. Weidner
PHL Vice Chairman (DDR)

From PHL Vice Chairman Mike Gillies:

Philadelphia Pilots --

Monday's Informational Conference Call was an exercise in restraint. Hosting the Allied Pilots Association on this call represented an exciting opportunity for some of our membership, while others expressed directly to me their concern that we were meeting with a group who has been negotiating with US Airways management for months without our knowledge or input. Some went as far as to say that we shouldn't be discussing anything with the APA until US Airways management engages us directly by asking for our support. The opinions on this definitely run the range, and I thank each of you for providing your input.

As reported and as expected, the call was very cordial. Who would expect contention in light of the fact that American pilots are facing -- for the first time in their history -- Section 1113 proceedings to abrogate their contract? I've never seen the APA so intrigued by having a new merger partner. If you haven't done so, check out the APA Web site, which reveals a slide entitled "AA - US Airways: Our best alternative" with a picture of one of our 737-400's in front of an AA B757. Everything we heard on Monday from APA Vice President Tony Chapman and APA Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair comported with this oddly affectionate view of US Airways. They said they felt that American had two choices: shrink into a niche carrier, or to merge with us and once again become a peer of United and Delta.

No pilot here should have any doubt that we will vigorously pursue the opportunities that present themselves over the coming months. However, it's important to note: Those opportunities must be beneficial to all US Airways pilots. Without providing detail, you should know that Monday's call exposed key areas in the "Term Sheet" -- the framework of the basic agreement that APA has reached in short order with our Management -- which make it obvious that we're only being told what they want us to know right now. Hundreds of details remain unknown, and as every US Airways pilot should know intuitively by now: The devil is in the details. Should this process eventually lead to bona fide merger negotiations, be assured we will only bring you an agreement that provides appropriate protections and appropriate compensation for our sacrifices. Without those painful sacrifices, our airline wouldn't be in a position to be throwing a lifeline to the pilots of American Airlines.

Fraternally,

Mike Gillies
PHL Vice Chairman


CLT Domicile Update Clarification: April 26, 2012

The April 23 CLT Domicile Update included the following statement that has been interpreted out of context in some recent Internet posts:

"For any pilot who thinks this is acceptable, please remember that it will not be the National Officers who will decide your fate and cast the vote should a merger develop, it will be the BPR. Therefore, we need to be kept informed, and we hope you agree."

Please keep in mind that just yesterday, the April 25 CLT Domicile Update contained the following commitment from your CLT Representatives as well:

"We look forward to and appreciate your feedback as this process moves forward and attempt to digest what will be in the best interest of our pilots as a whole. Never forget that whatever the final solution, any product that is produced will be sent to you for your review and ratification."

We would like to reemphasize that it is you, the line pilot, who will ultimately decide on any potential contract. Our point in the first quotation was that the BPR will be voting on issues important to you, and not the National Officers, so it is important that we be kept informed. We apologize for any confusion.

Also, in the April 25 CLT Domicile Update we mistakenly mentioned the Officers were scheduled to meet with US Airways management. We received this from President Hummel this morning: "There are currently no meetings scheduled between your Officers and US Airways management. However, we have invited Doug Parker and Tony Chapman to our BPR meeting next week to directly address our BPR.They are both attempting to coordinate their schedules."

Captain Bill McKee Chairman
First Officer Steve Crimi Vice Chairman
First Officer Dewitt Ingram Vice Chairman

 

[EastUS1]

I am not sure exactly what the CLT reps have been inhaling or imbibing, but they are so far off the charts with their assertion that the east contract Change of Control language will be operative in any merger with American.

CLT reps, you're smokin' somethin'!

Agreed....unfortunately.

 

[EastUS1]

dca319

If CoC will not be triggered in this transaction - and if APA petitions the NMB successfully to declare itself the CBA, then any protests or threats from CLT or 2/3 of PHL are irrelevant, constituting nothing more than background noise.

If, however, you are concerned that they may indeed jeopardize this transaction, then you are implying they have the wherewithal to do so in the first place - which lends credence to their concerns and veiled threats.

Which is it?

Indeed. This is clearly an either/or situation. To paint it otherwise reeks of personal agendas. We've all "seen that movie" many times now, on forwarding such during times of any uncertainty.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You can bet that the CoC language won't be triggered if Parker gets his way, and as an aside I have no idea where the CLT reps got their pay number if it were - it's outlandishly high. However, in a situation that could end up going one way or the other depending on a single vote on the UCC (and then the unsecured creditors themselves) anything that would cast doubt on Parker's plan could upset the apple cart. USAPA publicly coming out against a merger could in theory be enough. Dragging the process out with DFR suits/appeals could throw everything in disarray. Etc, etc.

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

Alienate - yes. Obstruct - I think not. Too much at stake. What could happen is that APA will punish its sassy stepchild, or threaten to do so.

I certainly don't want my reps and leadership to fold, just to keep the goal in sight at all times.

Just because APA is twice our size doesn't mean they can or will roll over us. Like em or hate em - AOL deserves credit and should serve as a lesson.

1984 & DCA

You guys do realize that AMR management will be fighting Team Tempe with some huge horsepower with deep pockets looking to make millions. They could care less about labor!

Sit back relax and watch the big money play the world series of airline mergers. The Tempe boys will not be the only players on the field.

Hate