US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

If a furloughed UAL guy gets recalled and his LOS is longer than a East capt......he doesn't bump the East/West guy but he does take
his rightful place in the LOS line....DAMN STRAIGHT....and he gets the next Capt seat on the next bid if no one SENIOR to
him wants it.

NICDOA
NPJB

Easy to say when you're on the side of the fence where 17 year furloughees is the norm and your pilot group's average age (and LOS) is higher than most, even though they occupy the lowest paid, lowest seniority positions in the industry. ie: junior reserve 737 & A320 f/o after over 17 years. (That's a new hire position for most airlines, btw.) Tragic, yes. But a fact of life for the east. No one, anywhere in this industry, is sympathetic to your sense of entitlement or your attempt to repair your career on the backs of others. Your true colors were exposed in 2000 and are still showing today.

 

[end_of_alpa]

North Texas has a number of SW and American pilots who would beg to differ with you. These are my friends who are very familiar with our situation. They understand USAPA was formed with the goal to renege on an agreement. Unless you are privy to my conversations, nothing was disproved as well.

Your friends, huh. So tell me what do you think they would have done with you if they "merged" with AWA?

Those pilots who have definitive histories of stapling, endtailing, overestimating their own industry value. What a surprise. You know what they say....pride goeth before a fall.

Tell us how APA is coming along with their contract negotiations....after five plus years.

Tell us how the Airtran guys are gonna like being stapled under the SWAPA pilots. Don't think so? Think again. My sources from Airtran say otherwise. Great pay increase. Is it worth the price to go to the bottom? Time will tell. Crystal ball is broke. I only know.....history repeats itself.

Good luck.

 

[end_of_alpa]

here's a hint:



Any more stupid questions?

So you really think justice would approve a "merger" between US Airways and the "new" united?

In short, you're posting here because of that "possibility"?

You need to rethink that through.

I'll take that bet!

 

[nycbusdriver]

North Texas has a number of SW and American pilots who would beg to differ with you. These are my friends who are very familiar with our situation. They understand USAPA was formed with the goal to renege on an agreement. Unless you are privy to my conversations, nothing was disproved as well.

More anecdotes. Try again.

Prove it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I think the CP's should tell Tempe to shove it and go find a new CP but I don't see that happening.

I think the catchphrase, "When pig fly!" was coined just for that circumstance.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Tell us how the Airtran guys are gonna like being stapled under the SWAPA pilots. Don't think so? Think again. My sources from Airtran say otherwise. Great pay increase. Is it worth the price to go to the bottom? Time will tell. Crystal ball is broke. I only know.....history repeats itself.

Good luck.

You're right, the bigger dictating to the smaller how an integration is going to proceed is wrong. That's why arbitrations are universally accepted as the most fair method of integration. You're finally seeing the light.

 

[sumadarson]

This is the day that we should concentrate on matters of importance and show respect for the ones who gave their lives for our freedom.

We can sit here in our panties and argue about subjects that are meaningless in comparison, tomorrow.

IMHO

 

[700UW]

There are a few and I was one of them.

On the contrary as to the second statement. Fleet service doesn't fall under the same "legal" obligations that mechanics and pilots have to comply with. If the company is changing policies and procedures to "trip up" the pilot or mechanics from doing their job that could easily be thought of as an illegal interference of the status quo.

Also just stating facts.

No offense but FWIW we don't consider your experience the forefront of labor negotiations where pilots and the FARs are concerned.

Good luck in your new endeavors.

Apparently you dont know the RLA, it only pertains to the Status Quo of the CBA, unless the company changes any article in the CBA, that is a violation of the Status Quo.

The RLA does not address policy and procedures, but you would know this if you were a negotiator.

From the NMB:

Q: What does "status quo" mean?
A: "Status quo" is used to describe the terms of the contract in place at the beginning of direct negotiations. During direct negotiations, mediated negotiations, and any cooling off periods after mediated negotiations, neither party may violate the status quo by making unilateral changes in wages, benefits, or working conditions.

Maybe you can comprehend its meaning now.

 

[CactusPilot1]

More anecdotes. Try again.
Prove it.

Disprove it.

Maybe I should include a United pilot's position who supports my argument. Refer to post #15391:

"But a fact of life for the east. No one, anywhere in this industry, is sympathetic to your sense of entitlement or your attempt to repair your career on the backs of others. Your true colors were exposed in 2000 and are still showing today."

 

[Phoenix]

.. ie: junior reserve 737 & A320 f/o after over 17 years. (That's a new hire position for most airlines, btw.) Tragic, yes. But a fact of life for the east. ...

False.

 

[Pi brat]

Aside from their obvious tactic of delay for those few upgrades here and there, and getting their furloughs back ahead of active west pilots, there are two things many of them are banking on, that they rarely dare speak of.

One is that they seem to believe that if this dispute is resolved by the courts one day, it will be too late to un-do what they've already claimed by force. In other words, they think "no bump - no flush" will keep them in their stolen positions. They don't understand that if they are guilty of DFR, then a court can very easily put them back where they belong as part of the remedy for damages.

Second is that they always thought another merger was around the corner, and a new snap shot would protect them in their current position outside of the Nicolau Award. They don't understand that a potential suitor will require a pre-merger resolution of the seniority dispute, and that resolution will be in the form of the Nic. I don't know about APA, but does anyone think for a NY minute that ALPA would not insist that the certified lists of each airline be based on any previous binding arbitration?

They have maneuvered themselves into a corner, and every door they hoped would lead them to the promised land has been closed in their face. Time will tell, and unfortunately for those stuck with them like a ball and chain, that time will drag on for quite some time. But they will eventually be forced one way or another to sleep in the bed they have made. There will never be a DOH list in a combined US Airways. It will be separate ops and LOA 93 for the east, or Nic with a better contract for all, or possibly even liquidation. But not DOH or LOS for that matter.

It amazes me how a UA pilot can say so much about how pilots from another airline think and feel.

Buddy, you pretty much shot your wad when you called us child molesters.

Never forget.

 

[Pi brat]

Your friends, huh. So tell me what do you think they would have done with you if they "merged" with AWA?

Those pilots who have definitive histories of stapling, endtailing, overestimating their own industry value. What a surprise. You know what they say....pride goeth before a fall.

Tell us how APA is coming along with their contract negotiations....after five plus years.

Tell us how the Airtran guys are gonna like being stapled under the SWAPA pilots. Don't think so? Think again. My sources from Airtran say otherwise. Great pay increase. Is it worth the price to go to the bottom? Time will tell. Crystal ball is broke. I only know.....history repeats itself.

Good luck.

Really. I didn't see either of these two groups rushing off to copy ALPA merger policy.

 

[Pi brat]

Disprove it.

Maybe I should include a United pilot's position who supports my argument. Refer to post #15391:

"But a fact of life for the east. No one, anywhere in this industry, is sympathetic to your sense of entitlement or your attempt to repair your career on the backs of others. Your true colors were exposed in 2000 and are still showing today."

CP1,

You will have to do better than him, he's almost as nutty as Jim.

 

[cleardirect]

Really. I didn't see either of these two groups rushing off to copy ALPA merger policy.

Really! Ever hear of M/B and the A/M merger policy? Nearly identical process. If we merge with another airline we will see something almost ALPA merger policy.

Arbitration using one of several integration methods. DOH is not required.

Get used to it.

 

[Pi brat]

Really! Ever hear of M/B and the A/M merger policy? Nearly identical process. If we merge with another airline we will see something almost ALPA merger policy.

Arbitration using one of several integration methods. DOH is not required.

Get used to it.

Really? Have AA and SWA done every merger according to A/M? I know they haven't M/B because it hasn't been around that long. Fill us in.

Been used to it, dim whit.