US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Mr. Paker does not hav a choice as to negotiating.

THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT​

TITLE 45 - United States Code
Chapter 8 - Sections 151-188
§ 152. General duties​

First. Duty of carriers and employees to settle disputes

It shall be the duty of all carriers, their officers, agents, and employees to exert every reasonable effort to make and maintain agreements concerning rates of pay, rules, and working conditions, and to settle all disputes, whether arising out of the application of such agreements or otherwise, in order to avoid any interruption to commerce or to the operation of any carrier growing out of any dispute between the carrier and the employees thereof.

The RLA does not require the company to ACCEPT anything only negotiate. But there are certain things that the company will not negotiate for. Keeping line bidding. Line in the sand. CoC pay rates, line in the sand. Accepting a made up seniority list with C&R that will get the company sued. Line in the sand.

The Nicoalu vs. DOH with any C&R are so far apart there is no negotiating. Would you guys accept the Nicolau with C&R? I doubt it. So what is there to negotiate. usapa has presented an ultimatum. The NMB will not release on ultimatums.

 

[cleardirect]

Lets take a look at some future money events:

LOA 93 pay restoration = EAST PILOTS

35 Million from the lump sum payout $10,000 plus per pilot = EAST PILOTS

Profit sharing from the east contract = EAST PILOTS

Pension PBGC law suit = EAST PILOTS

MDA law suit = EAST PILOTS

Should make for some fun times ahead.

Hate

Let’s take a look


LOA 93. Usapa is delaying that decision as long as possible. Why? What happens if you lose?

$35 million good for you. Enjoy it, it is the last one.

Profit sharing. Both sides get that.

PBGC. Really anything happening there? Have you read the updates? There is no money. That is not the purpose of the INVESTIGATION. You do know what it called right. Investigate what happened. It is not called the pension RECOVERY program.

MDA. The last filing was end of June that was a motion for summary judgment. Meaning ALPA asked to throw out the suit. No response from the court so far. Besides. If the win (not likely not ripe yet) they only recover money from ALPA. Has no effect on us or the Nicolau.

So other than more delay and a check for $7500.00 what are you getting?

 

[Black Swan]

Lets take a look at some future money events:

LOA 93 pay restoration = EAST PILOTS

35 Million from the lump sum payout $10,000 plus per pilot = EAST PILOTS

Profit sharing from the east contract = EAST PILOTS

Pension PBGC law suit = EAST PILOTS

MDA law suit = EAST PILOTS

Should make for some fun times ahead.

Hate

Hate- this LOA 93 cuts both ways. Maybe this is the one time the west is going to feel left out. The 36% profit sharing is solely allocated to the East pilots under LOA 93. The West was NEVER mentioned. The profit sharing was magnimonius to the west. ALPA. Done under the auspices of ALPA to be fair to the west. One problem for the west- they never did the integrity part. As much as they talk integrity, just like they talk religion- where the real practice is required, the talk is much more of a factor than the walk. Now we have East paid lower than the west. Why should the west continue to benefit from profit sharing when it was NEVER in LOA 93? They should not. They should be removed by vote from the east voting block in USAPA.To perpetuate an ALPA issue in a T/A is to perpetuate the former entity. It is absolutely called for seeing how many years the west did not have the INTEGRITY to bring the East to parity. I wonder how many East pilots will vote for the west getting profit sharing going forward seeing how the west lacked the INTEGRITY to do the right thing with pay parity? Do I even have to speculate? And let them try and sue for DFR. That would be hilarious. They keep us on a lower pay scale, then sue for the money used to assuage same. I say let them. Just one more badge backer. Maybe this will be the LOA 93 Level. This issue gets better every day. I just keep thinking about the warning given at WYE RIVER. ALL THE RISK RESTS WITH THE WEST. Nothing could be closer to the truth.

 

[Black Swan]

Let’s take a look


LOA 93. Usapa is delaying that decision as long as possible. Why? What happens if you lose?

$35 million good for you. Enjoy it, it is the last one.

Profit sharing. Both sides get that.

PBGC. Really anything happening there? Have you read the updates? There is no money. That is not the purpose of the INVESTIGATION. You do know what it called right. Investigate what happened. It is not called the pension RECOVERY program.

MDA. The last filing was end of June that was a motion for summary judgment. Meaning ALPA asked to throw out the suit. No response from the court so far. Besides. If the win (not likely not ripe yet) they only recover money from ALPA. Has no effect on us or the Nicolau.

So other than more delay and a check for $7500.00 what are you getting?

"Profit sharing. Both sides get that." quote clear direct. I say not for long. Lets put it to a vote. Have a nice day!

 

[Black Swan]

The RLA does not require the company to ACCEPT anything only negotiate. But there are certain things that the company will not negotiate for. Keeping line bidding. Line in the sand. CoC pay rates, line in the sand. Accepting a made up seniority list with C&R that will get the company sued. Line in the sand.

The Nicoalu vs. DOH with any C&R are so far apart there is no negotiating. Would you guys accept the Nicolau with C&R? I doubt it. So what is there to negotiate. usapa has presented an ultimatum. The NMB will not release on ultimatums.

I will absolutely take the Nic IF, IF LOS is how we are paid. That better be in the contract or it gets a big no.

 

[Hate2fly]

Let’s take a look


LOA 93. Usapa is delaying that decision as long as possible. Why? What happens if you lose?

$35 million good for you. Enjoy it, it is the last one.

Profit sharing. Both sides get that.

PBGC. Really anything happening there? Have you read the updates? There is no money. That is not the purpose of the INVESTIGATION. You do know what it called right. Investigate what happened. It is not called the pension RECOVERY program.

MDA. The last filing was end of June that was a motion for summary judgment. Meaning ALPA asked to throw out the suit. No response from the court so far. Besides. If the win (not likely not ripe yet) they only recover money from ALPA. Has no effect on us or the Nicolau.

So other than more delay and a check for $7500.00 what are you getting?

clear,

How did that desert trial work out for you guys? You guys haven't been right yet! Keep the donations coming. Guys like you have put your boys and girls out west in a bad spot. You guys are younger and smarter......we all know that because you guys have told us. Good luck.

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

clear,

How did that desert trial work out for you guys? You guys haven't been right yet! Keep the donations coming. Guys like you have put your boys and girls out west in a bad spot. You guys are younger and smarter......we all know that because you guys have told us. Good luck.

Hate

Hate- do you love how clear says "profit sharing. Both sides get that." Brings the entitlement thing right into focus doesn't it. Never did anything under LOA 93, never affected by it, but it is now theirs. Sums it all up =the Nic, now this. This is what you are dealing with.

 

[Black Swan]

Clear, show us where you EVER had profit sharing in your contract.

 

[Black Swan]

You better read the contents of LOA 93 very carefully. Especially how the association determines the distribution of it. Seems fair the formula should be used to make the sides paid in PARITY going forward and ESPECIALLY looking back. That is INTEGRITY. You get a windfall if it is done differently. You'll get some profit sharing. It just isn't what you were counting on.......

 

[Black Swan]

And this pay parity issue has been going on for 5 yrs. That ought to eat up your portion of it nicely. Pay close attention today to the USAPA pay clock. Our numbers speak volumes as to where the money should, and will go with a vote.

 

[luvthe9]

Clear, show us where you EVER had profit sharing in your contract.

I don't believe the west ever had profit sharing, and since that was an LOA 93 issue with ALPA and we are no longer ALPA, I think there will be a vote on this and it will not go well for the West, but we all know how they feel about LOA 93.

 

[nic4us]

And this pay parity issue has been going on for 5 yrs. That ought to eat up your portion of it nicely. Pay close attention today to the USAPA pay clock. Our numbers speak volumes as to where the money should, and will go with a vote.

Swan,

Parker et al always said the east would get parity with a joint contract. The West has always contended that the lions share of gains would be to bring the East up to parity. Nothing from either the company or the West said retro pay could not be used to make parity retroactive. However, now that we are five years into this, and down millions on legal expenses, that is going to be a tough nut to crack.

What exactly does the usapa pay clock represent? It was started as a count down to the end of LOA93, but now counts up. Why? Is the clock counting the amont of retro pay usapa expects? If so another blatant disregard for the West. The West contract became amendable in 2006. Where is the clock counting up for the West from the date that Bradford denied our section 6 request and said usapa was only interested in a single contract for all US Airways pilots. (i.e. even Bradford said you will get parity through a joint contract.)

usapa is stuck chasing its tail over this ridiculous scheme to renege on the Nic. If parity is still an issue that could bring both sides together, than this is what I would suggest.

Retro pay so you get your parity. But not to 12-31-09, when usapa was dumb enough to start the clock. We base retro pay for everyone back to the amendable date of the West contract.

 

[cleardirect]

Hate- this LOA 93 cuts both ways. Maybe this is the one time the west is going to feel left out. The 36% profit sharing is solely allocated to the East pilots under LOA 93. The West was NEVER mentioned. The profit sharing was magnimonius to the west. ALPA. Done under the auspices of ALPA to be fair to the west. One problem for the west- they never did the integrity part. As much as they talk integrity, just like they talk religion- where the real practice is required, the talk is much more of a factor than the walk. Now we have East paid lower than the west. Why should the west continue to benefit from profit sharing when it was NEVER in LOA 93? They should not. They should be removed by vote from the east voting block in USAPA.To perpetuate an ALPA issue in a T/A is to perpetuate the former entity. It is absolutely called for seeing how many years the west did not have the INTEGRITY to bring the East to parity. I wonder how many East pilots will vote for the west getting profit sharing going forward seeing how the west lacked the INTEGRITY to do the right thing with pay parity? Do I even have to speculate? And let them try and sue for DFR. That would be hilarious. They keep us on a lower pay scale, then sue for the money used to assuage same. I say let them. Just one more badge backer. Maybe this will be the LOA 93 Level. This issue gets better every day. I just keep thinking about the warning given at WYE RIVER. ALL THE RISK RESTS WITH THE WEST. Nothing could be closer to the truth.

Once again the east disregards facts that do not fit your version of reality.

Profit sharing was NEGOTIATIED during the transition agreement. If the east gave something away without getting something in return that is poor negotiating on your side. That is your problem not ours. Now you want a vote to change another deal that the east made. Can you guys not live up to anything?

You say that the west did not bring you up to parity. Do you think that the west is in charge of pay rates? It is not the west that has kept or is keeping you from parity. Parker told you that you could have parity in a new contract. Your choice, new contract or no parity. Nothing to do with the west.

One more time. During JNC there were coast to coast picket events designed to get the east parity. When the east walked out of JNC because of the Nicolau and told us that the east would get parity and never get a contract we withdrew that support. Because you wanted your but did not want us to have anything.

Now reality check. Usapa has been the bargaining agent for 2.5 years. The west has no voice and the east is the majority. Just how is it that the west is keeping the east from parity? If you want to blame someone look to usapa. They are the ones negotiating for the pilots. Why have they not been able to get you parity in the last 2.5 years? Vote all you want. Yet again go back on a deal to harm the west. There will be another DFR case and that would just get thrown on the growing pile of evidence. The case will not just be about how usapa (the east) disregarded arbitration but what have they done for the last 2.5 years to harm the west.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Black Swan and luvthe9 seem to think USAPA can just have a vote of the membership and eliminate the profit sharing for the West. Maybe they should look at who are parties to the transition agreement before their foot gets all wrinkled from being in their mouth.

Jim

 

[Run Like Hell]

I will absolutely take the Nic IF, IF LOS is how we are paid. That better be in the contract or it gets a big no.

Good, then it's settled!

From what I understand, LOS for pay has never been an issue for anyone. Exactly what information (or lack there of) has Userpa Spin Headquarters been feeding you?