US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[luvthe9]

e mailed Baptiste and Wilder today on this one. Bill Wilder saw through Vasin and Wake light years before the 9th even got involved. If there ever was an issue that was out of reach of the company, this is the one. Of course Vasin, Koontz, and the rest of LA Law will stumble into this with some profound discourse. What do you think the cardiologist will have to say?Has anyone asked Jacobs how you can sue for damage before the damage occurs? I mean two million bucks and the guy cannot even give you an explanation of how he burned the house down and took your cash. You should have gone on contingency. I mean with all the damages coming like DELETED BY MODERATOR, you should have gone the contingency route. What did Koontz say? How about Mark Doyal? Jacobs should at least have taken a polygraph before you signed him on to see if he actually believed there was a case. Doyal is the polygraph expert on your crack legal team. He should have looked into it.

 

[oscarjazz]

No, Black Swan and Luvthe9 KNOW they can just have a vote of the membership and RE ALLOCATE the disbursement of the funds, at the discretion of USAPA.

This is what the Transition Agreement says about profit sharing:

The Plan of Reorganization of US Airways Group will provide for profit sharing for pilots employed by US Airways and America West and then by the Single Carrier as follows.

1. A profit sharing pool, based on the consolidated profits of US Airways Group, to be established at 10% of the pre-tax profit excluding unusual items (as reported, according to GAAP accounting practices) for pre-tax margins ranging from 0.1% to 10%. In addition to the above, 15% of the pre-tax profit excluding unusual items (as reported, according to GAAP accounting practices) for pre-tax margins in excess of 10%.

2. The portion of the profit sharing pool allocated to pilots of US Airways and America West will be no less than 36%.

3. Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned based on a formula for distribution to be determined by the Association.

It sounds to me that the TA intends for all pilots to get profit sharing. I am sure USAPA can try to vote to only give the pool to East pilots, but that sounds like an unquestionably ripe DFR if that is what occurs.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually I am not at all sure that is accurate.

There is absolutely nothing in the transition agreement about the AWA pilots getting any profit sharing.

Actually there is: "Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned...". In theory, USAPA could decide to pay profit sharing to only the East pilots, but as soon as the checks were signed a ripe DFR suit would follow, with precedent against USAPA. Of course, there's the LOA93 language to get around since all pilots are US Air pilots now and LOA 93 made no distinction between one group of US pilots and another.

BTW, there wasn't a vote on the profit sharing or any other part of the transition agreement other than the E190 pay rates.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

From LOA 93 in reference to the profit sharing -


"The allocation of equity participation to the Association’s members shall be determined by the US Airways MEC, in its sole discretion."


You might be hearing more on this before long....

Boeing Driver

Apparently Boeing Boy didn't read this.

 

[Black Swan]

Actually there is: "Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned...". In theory, USAPA could decide to pay profit sharing to only the East pilots, but as soon as the checks were signed a ripe DFR suit would follow, with precedent against USAPA. Of course, there's the LOA93 language to get around since all pilots are US Air pilots now and LOA 93 made no distinction between one group of US pilots and another.

BTW, there wasn't a vote on the profit sharing or any other part of the transition agreement other than the E190 pay rates.

Jim

All we ever hear is live with LOA 93. How do they sue for a DFR when they make so much more as they say? Try and make that case. I am going to laugh at the millions they blow on this one. And you give them all this strange advice! We gave them this as good will, then they laugh on the parity. Then you and them think they can sue , again, and win? This is hilarious! Tell me what SOLE DISCRETION means, and how you sue when someone has SOLE DISCRETION???

 

[BoeingBoy]

Read your take on the ripeness. Baptiste &Wilder, dead on. Boeing Boy, swing and a miss.

I don't think I gave a "take" on the ripeness issue. I definitely thought ripeness could go either way and was USAPA's best shot in the 9th. But if you want to find my post giving my "take" that proved to be wrong have at it.

Jim

 

[Run Like Hell]

Actually there is: "Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned...". In theory, USAPA could decide to pay profit sharing to only the East pilots, but as soon as the checks were signed a ripe DFR suit would follow, with precedent against USAPA. Of course, there's the LOA93 language to get around since all pilots are US Air pilots now and LOA 93 made no distinction between one group of US pilots and another.

BTW, there wasn't a vote on the profit sharing or any other part of the transition agreement other than the E190 pay rates.

Jim

Stop trying to confuse the east with facts

 

[Black Swan]

Actually there is: "Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned...". In theory, USAPA could decide to pay profit sharing to only the East pilots, but as soon as the checks were signed a ripe DFR suit would follow, with precedent against USAPA. Of course, there's the LOA93 language to get around since all pilots are US Air pilots now and LOA 93 made no distinction between one group of US pilots and another.

BTW, there wasn't a vote on the profit sharing or any other part of the transition agreement other than the E190 pay rates.

Jim

Funny you and Metro can't seem to wrap your head around what the term SOLE DISCRETION means. In fact Jim does not even have the cojones to quote LOA 93 in its entirety. Just what suits the ALPA cause. YOU LEFT OUT THE SOLE DISCRETION PART!

 

[Run Like Hell]

All we ever hear is live with LOA 93. How do they sue for a DFR when they make so much more as they say? Try and make that case. I am going to laugh at the millions they blow on this one. And you give them all this strange advice! We gave them this as good will, then they laugh on the parity. Then you and them think they can sue , again, and win? This is hilarious! Tell me what SOLE DISCRETION means, and how you sue when someone has SOLE DISCRETION???

Tell us what BINDING ARBITRATION means?

How do you try to wiggle out of BINDING ARBITRATION ?

 

[Black Swan]

Stop trying to confuse the east with facts

Yes, the fact that SOLE DISCRETION was conveniently left out!

 

[Black Swan]

This is what the Transition Agreement says about profit sharing:

The Plan of Reorganization of US Airways Group will provide for profit sharing for pilots employed by US Airways and America West and then by the Single Carrier as follows.

1. A profit sharing pool, based on the consolidated profits of US Airways Group, to be established at 10% of the pre-tax profit excluding unusual items (as reported, according to GAAP accounting practices) for pre-tax margins ranging from 0.1% to 10%. In addition to the above, 15% of the pre-tax profit excluding unusual items (as reported, according to GAAP accounting practices) for pre-tax margins in excess of 10%.

2. The portion of the profit sharing pool allocated to pilots of US Airways and America West will be no less than 36%.

3. Profit sharing will be paid to each pilot who was employed by US Airways or America West during the year in which the profit was earned based on a formula for distribution to be determined by the Association.

It sounds to me that the TA intends for all pilots to get profit sharing. I am sure USAPA can try to vote to only give the pool to East pilots, but that sounds like an unquestionably ripe DFR if that is what occurs.

Wow, for not being a pilot here, you sure are quick to the "facts." Except you too, conveniently leave out the SOLE DISCRETION part. Nice try Metro. Call ALPO legal, see if they can help you on the facts next time.

 

[Hate2fly]

Wow, for not being a pilot here, you sure are quick to the "facts." Except you too, conveniently leave out the SOLE DISCRETION part. Nice try Metro. Call ALPO legal, see if they can help you on the facts next time.

Swan,

Remember this update from Johnny Mac!

AWA MEC Chairman's Special Update

July 23, 2007

Fellow AWA Pilots:



East Parity Proposal

As mentioned above, when it had come to our attention that the US Airways MEC directed their officers to contact management in order to obtain immediate contractual parity with us, we immediately ensured that management understood that the West pilots would be outraged if the East was granted parity.........

ALPA Executive Council Meeting #3

I will tell you that I have never been prouder of the AWA MEC. Extreme pressure was brought to bear on our MEC to mitigate the Nicolau Award by ALPA staff, EXCL members and the Rice Committee in an effort to find an easier way out. The AWA MEC made it extremely clear that we understand a joint contract is the key to unlocking the Nicolau Award and were dedicated to finding a solution that would meet the ratification test on both properties,

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna

AWA MEC Chairman

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

Yes, the fact that SOLE DISCRETION was conveniently left out!

Swan,

based on a formula for distribution to be determined by the Association.

I really like this language!

Hate

 

[Black Swan]

Did Metro or Beoing Boy have a response to what SOLE DISCRETION might mean? Does that mean Doug Parker has to give the green light? These guys really play fast and loose with the language. The term RIPENESS was the one that really cost them big. 2 Million Big!This is why we are having the re writes on the 9th. The fast and loose attitude as far as it is used to defend the west and ALPA is what costs these guys over and over.

 

[Run Like Hell]

Did Metro or Beoing Boy have a response to what SOLE DISCRETION might mean? Does that mean Doug Parker has to give the green light? These guys really play fast and loose with the language. The term RIPENESS was the one that really cost them big. 2 Million Big!This is why we are having the re writes on the 9th. The fast and loose attitude as far as it is used to defend the west and ALPA is what costs these guys over and over.

Seems like you guys have been playing fast and loose with the term BINDING ARBITRATION!