US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

Once again no answer.

 

[nic4us]

Oh Brother...

Where art thou????

 

[Phoenix]

Once again no answer.

The court's answers will be the only ones that matter and they will apparently be the only ones that will listen to reason. Answering Jerry Falwell type accusations is pointless.

Cheers.

 

[cleardirect]

The court's answers will be the only ones that matter and they will apparently be the only ones that will listen to reason. Answering Jerry Falwell type accusations is pointless.

Cheers.

You forget.

Parker could finally answer that question that he has been avoiding for many years. The reason the company is in court is because Parker does not want to be the bad guys. He can blame the court.

Parker could come out tomorrow and say that he has decided to use the Nicolau no court action required. This would be done.

usapa from the beginning has said that he will neg. what if he won't. What will usapa and the east pilots do then? There is no credible strike, no leverage to force Parker to bargain for something that he does not want. What then?

You see there are always other options. Not just the court in this case.

 

[A320 Driver]

You forget.

The reason the company is in court is because Parker does not want to be the bad guys.

Parker could come out tomorrow and say that he has decided to use the Nicolau no court action required. This would be done.

usapa from the beginning has said that he will neg. what if he won't. What will usapa and the east pilots do then? There is no credible strike, no leverage to force Parker to bargain for something that he does not want. What then?

You see there are always other options. Not just the court in this case.

What I see is a possibility the court will issue a definitive verdict. But what happens FOR SURE is NO contract until this thing makes it's way through the courts assuring the company bottom of the barrel wages for the foreseeable future.
This is NOT about management "doing the right thing". This is about dollars and cents. If management could come out ahead, they wouldn't really care who they through under the bus...East OR West.

Driver B)

 

[Phoenix]

....

You see there are always other options. Not just the court in this case.

Don't kid yourself. All parties involved will use the courts until they are exhausted and out of money. The question isn't who won or lost, but who is currently on top. The history books will have to settle the first question.

 

[cleardirect]

Don't kid yourself. All parties involved will use the courts until they are exhausted and out of money. The question isn't who won or lost, but who is currently on top. The history books will have to settle the first question.

Thank you for describing perfectly why we went to BINDING ARBITRATION.

To avoid this very situation. But no you very “experienced” east pilots know better than anyone else how to do this. Instead of going through the process and settling the dispute and accepting the results. You guys have to short circuit the process because you did not get what you want.

Merger policy could say “fight it out in court until one side quits or runs out of money”. But instead it says BINDING ARBITRATION.

As I said before Parker could make a decision to use the Nicolau, no bargaining. There is no court solution for that. Usapa says seniority is like a crew meal. Parker says PBS, no line bidding. Are you east pilots going to take the company to court over a bidding method? How are you going to take the company to court over a seniority method?

FINAL AND BINDING ATBITRATION It saves everyone time, money and the court system.

BTW as far as the history books are concerned. I don't think they are going to be kind to the east pilots or usapa.

 

[A320 Driver]

Thank you for describing perfectly why we went to BINDING ARBITRATION.

To avoid this very situation. But no you very “experienced” east pilots know better than anyone else how to do this. Instead of going through the process and settling the dispute and accepting the results. You guys have to short circuit the process because you did not get what you want.

Merger policy could say “fight it out in court until one side quits or runs out of money”. But instead it says BINDING ARBITRATION.

As I said before Parker could make a decision to use the Nicolau, no bargaining. There is no court solution for that. Usapa says seniority is like a crew meal. Parker says PBS, no line bidding. Are you east pilots going to take the company to court over a bidding method? How are you going to take the company to court over a seniority method?

FINAL AND BINDING ARBITRATION It saves everyone time, money and the court system.

BTW as far as the history books are concerned. I don't think they are going to be kind to the east pilots or usapa.

There is very little of your post that I disagree with. Final and Binding should be just that...FINAL and BINDING.
BUT, there is an element of trust that the process will be fair. Even if you make mistakes, you trust the wisdom of the arbitrator to render a fair award. THAT is where we disagree. There were many red flags.

ALPA president states he viewed the award as problematic...RED FLAG.
ALPA creates a committee to study the award and the process...RED FLAG.
Committee tries to broker a compromise...RED FLAG.
When all that fails, ALPA tries to get either side, the first one that will, to copitulate...RED FLAG.
ALPA declares that the process was followed and now there really wasn't a problem after all...RED FLAG.

So what's left to do. Fight it out with ALPA or form a new union. I wish we had stayed with option 1. The court system could have been used to hopefully find middle ground without the wholesale destruction of our pilot group. But, we are where we are and the only one winning is the company.

Just my opinion...OK?

Driver B)

 

[malikie]

ALPA president states he viewed the award as problematic...RED FLAG.
ALPA creates a committee to study the award and the process...RED FLAG.
Committee tries to broker a compromise...RED FLAG.
When all that fails, ALPA tries to get either side, the first one that will, to copitulate...RED FLAG.
ALPA declares that the process was followed and now there really wasn't a problem after all...RED FLAG.


Driver B)
[/quote]

Alpa was only trying to keep the east pilots and their money from leaving and forming their own union. Once that failed ALPA delcared the process was followed and there was not a problem.

 

[Phoenix]

Thank you for describing perfectly why we went to BINDING ARBITRATION.

To avoid this very situation. But no you very “experienced” east pilots know better than anyone else how to do this. Instead of going through the process and settling the dispute and accepting the results. You guys have to short circuit the process because you did not get what you want.

Merger policy could say “fight it out in court until one side quits or runs out of money”. But instead it says BINDING ARBITRATION.

As I said before Parker could make a decision to use the Nicolau, no bargaining. There is no court solution for that. Usapa says seniority is like a crew meal. Parker says PBS, no line bidding. Are you east pilots going to take the company to court over a bidding method? How are you going to take the company to court over a seniority method?

FINAL AND BINDING ATBITRATION It saves everyone time, money and the court system.

BTW as far as the history books are concerned. I don't think they are going to be kind to the east pilots or usapa.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

 

[Black Flag]

Once again no answer.

Your probably not going to get any answers from now on because they have already been answered numerous times in the past. How many times does everyone on this board have to rehash the same old thing? Both sides are entrenched in their positions and no amount of pontificating is going to change anyone's mind. It will play itself out in the court and that will be that.

 

[A320 Driver]

[/quote]

Alpa was only trying to keep the east pilots and their money from leaving and forming their own union. Once that failed ALPA declared the process was followed and there was not a problem.
[/quote]

That is your interpretation of it. Personally, I think ALPA national leadership had been quietly hoping for our demise for a long time. At one point, that was the sum total of Delta's business plan. They certainly didn't do much in the final hours to try to dissuade anyone. Looked like they were daring the East group to separate.

Driver B)

 

[Al Legheny]

You forget.

Parker could finally answer that question that he has been avoiding for many years. The reason the company is in court is because Parker does not want to be the bad guys. He can blame the court.

Parker could come out tomorrow and say that he has decided to use the Nicolau no court action required. This would be done.

usapa from the beginning has said that he will neg. what if he won't. What will usapa and the east pilots do then? There is no credible strike, no leverage to force Parker to bargain for something that he does not want. What then?

You see there are always other options. Not just the court in this case.

Mr. Paker does not hav a choice as to negotiating.

THE RAILWAY LABOR ACT​

TITLE 45 - United States Code
Chapter 8 - Sections 151-188
§ 152. General duties​

First. Duty of carriers and employees to settle disputes

It shall be the duty of all carriers, their officers, agents, and employees to exert every reasonable effort to make and maintain agreements concerning rates of pay, rules, and working conditions, and to settle all disputes, whether arising out of the application of such agreements or otherwise, in order to avoid any interruption to commerce or to the operation of any carrier growing out of any dispute between the carrier and the employees thereof.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Mr. Paker does not hav a choice as to negotiating.

Nowhere does it say that he has to accept any specific union demand. Plus you'll notice employees are included, so if Parker has no choice neither does USAPA.

Jim

 

[Hate2fly]

Lets take a look at some future money events:

LOA 93 pay restoration = EAST PILOTS

35 Million from the lump sum payout $10,000 plus per pilot = EAST PILOTS

Profit sharing from the east contract = EAST PILOTS

Pension PBGC law suit = EAST PILOTS

MDA law suit = EAST PILOTS

Should make for some fun times ahead.

Hate