US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

Then explain why the LOA 93 award, whichever way it goes, is going to be final and binding, and the Nic is not.

According to one of the USAPA cheerleaders, a lawyer involved in the LOA 93 grievance said that whoever wins the arbitration, the other side will take it to court, so the grievance award isn't so "final and binding" according to that post. You guys really do need to huddle and get your stories straight. One says the LOA arb will be final and binding, another says not so. One says USAPA is free to negotiate whatever seniority list it wants because DOH is acknowledged as being within the "wide latitude" of what's acceptable, another says "nobody" is saying that USAPA can do that. One says toe-may-toe and another says no - it's toe-ma-toe...

Personally I think all but a few of USAPA supporters are just making it up as you go - saying whatever is necessary to refute whatever the other side says.

Jim

 

[Freebird]

You know, Freebird, you TALK a good game...as if you have some sort of special insight or somesuch...but I assure you that there is NO effort of ANY significance to oust USAPA. All of your cute little sayings intimating its imminent demise are purely wishful thinking on your part.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe they are infallible by any stretch of the imagination. NO organization will be without dissenters, but to suggest that USAPA's days here are just about over is patently ridiculous. Your cute little sig lines are UTTERLY out of touch with things in the east and unless there's a HUGE uproar in the east, there won't be any big representational changes. In fact, I predict that even if the LOA 93 grievance is lost, they will STILL be our bargaining unit for quite some time. Enjoy your fantasies.

Cute siglines=articulating fun fantasies for some....

My posts my hit close to home. That's the point. You're welcome.

I'll give you this; Usapa could be a good thing for all US Airways pilots, but not until we are all pulling in the same direction. That WILL NOT happen until the East accepts the BINDING ARBITRATION that they FREELY entered into.

Mediation/Arbitration is finished. It ended with the Nicolau Award.

I'm all for getting an Industry Standard contract. As far as being 'out of touch', the East posters on this board talk big, but they are scared and desperate. They know that they will not get around the NIC and they are DESPERATELY SUPPORTING ANYONE WHO TELLS THEM WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. Wake up.

How many years have you wasted? Seriously, you are missing the big picture here. Why? Fear.

Until USAPA embraces the NIC and embraces the power of the West, they will continue to be ineffective.

Your COWARDLY LEADERSHIP at Usapa is holding you back. Lying. Spreading "false Hope" and YOU ARE BUYING IT.


USAPA = Get your SNAKE OIL !!! Step right up !!!

 

[Freebird]

Pretty much every one that I come into contact with. No one is "afraid" of sanctions for being "disloyal" and there are quite a few who are NOT happy with various aspects of how things are being done. That said, NO ONE is in ANY way fearful to speak up if they don't like something and quite a few DO, but very, VERY FEW want to see USAPA off the property. You're as delusional about this subject as your bridy friend.

Have a nice day.

When you lose LOA93, the wheels will FALL OFF the Usapa bandwagon. Cleary knows it and he's circling the wagons. In the meantime he's dealing with the internal fighting and politics that are taking their toll on the 'dream team'.

Usapa has run its course. It lost. The pilots are ready for a pay raise.


Usapa = We'll TELL YOU what you want !!!

 

[Freebird]

One question for all of you: if it is binding arbitration, how come it is not binding? Seriously. Someone explain why you cannot make it become reality if it is supposedly set in stone.

Answer: (for the 1,000th time) It is just a matter of time. It is and will remain BINDING. You know it, I know it, Napoleon knows it.

In the meantime, we're waiting until you've had enough time under LOA93 and are tired of working under such conditions while the world passes you by. Your groups "tactics" are pitiful and desperate.

Let me ask you "If USAPA is Supremely Confident that they can negotiate any seniority they choose, then why haven't they? Where's the new contract?"


The 9th 'told' you in their ruling that its a matter of time and it "will be unquestionably ripe" and anything further will be a definite DFR.

Your choice. Move forward together or STAGNATE.


Usapa = Toothless wonder.

 

[traderjake]

Your COWARDLY LEADERSHIP at Usapa is holding you back. Lying. Spreading "false Hope" and YOU ARE BUYING IT.

The East ALPA MEC was no different.

They were too cowardly to tell the rank and file that under the ALPA merger policy DOH had no chance of succeeding.

 

[cleardirect]

Even if DL left ALPA to form their own union, at least they won't be doing it with the explicit intent of avoiding binding arbitration or any other commitments. I say if they are really that unhappy with the representation they have with ALPA, they should leave and find something better. I just doubt they will muster the numbers they need to do it. Either way, I personally couldn't care less. I'm not sure I understand the East obsession with ALPA at other airlines, since it has zero effect on the situation you've created for yourselves.

I think the obsession with ALPA is whenever someone makes some crazy decision they hope desperately that someone else will join them so they don't look so foolish. They are hoping that some other carrier will follow their silly path.

The east pilot so want someone else to affirm their decision. That also explains the near worship of the IBT. Someone is paying attention to usapa. It is the ugly girl at the dance thing. Also the overwhelming love affair with lobbiest and politicians. But you pay a politician enough money they will listen to you nod their head and forget you when you leave. But hey usapa felt good about themselves for a couple minutes.

 

[767jetz]

... they hope desperately that someone else will join them so they don't look so foolish. They are hoping that some other carrier will follow their silly path.

The east pilot so want someone else to affirm their decision.

I think you are spot on with your assessment. DPA, UPA, the Continental pilot's who oppose the UA merger. All examples of a small number of misinformed and discontent people who think others are responsible for their problems.

When you lose LOA93, the wheels will FALL OFF the Usapa bandwagon.

Usapa has run its course. It lost. The pilots are ready for a pay raise.

IMO, another very true statement. It seems to be alot of yelling and screaming and tantrums here lately by one side. I think it's a sign that things are close to the end and options are quickly evaporating.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The East ALPA MEC was no different.

They were too cowardly to tell the rank and file that under the ALPA merger policy DOH had no chance of succeeding.

I for one can't see much difference between the former AAA MEC and the current East BPR and Pres/VP. Just like I stated here during the dump-ALPA drive, the East's problems aren't in their union leadership. Their problems are far more intrinsic.

The recall petition drive of Dear Leader Cleary is in progress. It's a start in the right direction.

 

[767jetz]

Their problems are far more intrinsic.

The recall petition drive of Dear Leader Cleary is in progress. It's a start in the right direction.

I agree. Regardless of what they say here, the East pilot's biggest inherent problem was themselves collectively, not any national organization or the influence of bigger airlines.

Is the recall drive actually in progress? There have been some here who claim it is just a fantasy.

My prediction is that if the loa 93 grievance is lost, and the company stands on the Nicolau award and refuses to enable USAPA to drag them into a lawsuit, then the few remaining USAPA/Cleary supporters on this forum will disappear without a word of retraction for all that's been said.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You are absolutely right about Prater. He should have handed the Nic to Parker himself the day after Nicolau published it. Prater's blatant failure of his DFR to the West was flagrant He opened a can of worms that caused problems with the PHL reps and lost the property for ALPA. I cannot believe they have not replaced him.

Hey! Look at that! We actually agree on something!

My question is: Why hasn't AOL filed suit against ALPA for the flagrant DFR? There could be damages involved in such litigation. While I don't think that Prater's delay in delivering the Nicolau shame to Parker constitutes a DFR per se, I certainly think his antics during the interim from Nicolau's pronouncement to the delivery in Tempe could be tried in court as a DFR lawsuit.

 

[nycbusdriver]

So using your logic when you old guys start to retire and the west takes control. We bring ALPA back redo the seniority list to return what we should have had plus interest. Internal dispute. New union. Not my deal that was usapa.

Hope you junior guys did not plan on stealing seniority for to long. About 5 more years of usapa failure should soften up the east. Retire on LOA 93. Seniority will be the least of your problems.

Two comments:

First, when most of us are gone, we (who are gone) really don't care what you do. Have at it.

Second, your scenario implies that a DOH/LOS list with C&R's actually does get implemented in the short term. So, tell me this: We keep hearing that that USAPA will be sued immediately over a DFR is indeed such a list is implemented in a new contract.

Bear with me here while we follow this scenario to a particular conclusion that your own post implies. You indicate that you will wait until you have the votes to redo the list a la Nicolau. Given that you had to wait, that would mean that you lost the DFR and the DOH/LOS list survived for a period of time while we old east farts attrited.

Do you really think that a DOH/LOS list that survived during this period (AFTER the much promised DFR suit is concluded with the list surviving your court challenge) can then be rearranged without the east pilots filing a DFR lawsuit? Do you really think your tactic would survive a DFR lawsuit? Good luck with that.

 

[Black Swan]

According to one of the USAPA cheerleaders, a lawyer involved in the LOA 93 grievance said that whoever wins the arbitration, the other side will take it to court, so the grievance award isn't so "final and binding" according to that post. You guys really do need to huddle and get your stories straight. One says the LOA arb will be final and binding, another says not so. One says USAPA is free to negotiate whatever seniority list it wants because DOH is acknowledged as being within the "wide latitude" of what's acceptable, another says "nobody" is saying that USAPA can do that. One says toe-may-toe and another says no - it's toe-ma-toe...

Personally I think all but a few of USAPA supporters are just making it up as you go - saying whatever is necessary to refute whatever the other side says.

Jim

Again. Nicolau- INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS, such as no company involvement. Between USAPA and its' pilots. LOA 93 Grievance, between the COMPANY and the USAIRWAYS PILOTS. Understand now?

 

[oscarjazz]

Looks like the Delta pilots are starting to act like the US Airways East pilots....................................

OscarJazz this probably has your head spinning.

767Jetzz you guys will be next. Having lunch with college roomate tomorrow UAL 320 Capt.....DOH supporter....

ALPA's days will be numbered if the DL/UA pilots make the smart move.

Hate

http://www.delta-pilots.org/

Seeing as how this is the fourth time these same guys have tried this, I wish them luck. What does it take to put up a 5 page website today? Head not spinning.

 

[Black Swan]

So using your logic when you old guys start to retire and the west takes control. We bring ALPA back redo the seniority list to return what we should have had plus interest. Internal dispute. New union. Not my deal that was usapa.

Hope you junior guys did not plan on stealing seniority for to long. About 5 more years of usapa failure should soften up the east. Retire on LOA 93. Seniority will be the least of your problems.

When the list is presented to the company and is ACCEPTED by the company and a contract is completed- the list is set in stone. You cannot re order it. Somebody better educate your side on arbitration and what is internal union affairs, what are labor - company affairs. A good start is Baptiste and Wilder. I know you don't like what he says but he knows what he is doing.

 

[LSS]

This has about as much a chance of success as the failed UPA attempt at UA a few years ago. That one fizzled with about 3% - 5% backing UPA. A far cry from the 51% needed.

Yeah... same kind of stuff was said about the ALPA decert drive at U... "you won't get 200 cards"... WRONG!