US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[exB717Flyer]

Please, do it! And use Jacobs also.

Okay.

We feel extremely confident.

I just completed another online CFI renewal course. Updated from the original Fundamentals of Instruction booklet here are the common defense mechanisms exhibited by flight trainees: Repression, Denial, Compensation, Projection, Rationalization, Reaction Formation, Fantasy, and Displacement. You get extra credit for utilizing almost every one simultaneously.

 

[luvthe9]

Keep quoting the 9th. Your creative interpretation of their statements is amusing but more importantly your misunderstanding of their significance is very amusing. The appellate court made one ruling and one ruling only: the case wasn't ripe. Everything else they wrote is interesting but irrelevant because it has no legal bearing. Appellate courts don't retry cases, they only rule on points of law during the conduction of the case. But for the ripeness issue the case was won by the Addington plaintiffs. If you feel lucky about your chances in another DFR trial then we shall both find out.

717- your counsel did you a tremendous disservice going down the ripeness path. Yes, you are correct. They did make one ruling only. That is because that was the one issue of contention- RIPENESS. It was not ripe. They did not say it would be ripe in the future, they did not say it would not. Yes, USAPA has to represent the west. Agreed. Damage is the next point of contention. Seems we have a disparate view of the definition of damage. A term thrown around freely by the West as if it can be simply plucked from the sky, and employed as a threat at will. We shall see about that definition going forward. Seems you have a far different view of damage from a lot of other people, but whatever, that is your prerogative. But here is what the 9th really did, and this is a real gem. You got them to reveal their opinion of the use of Nicolau. I really think Jacobs must have cringed when he saw that little dissertation. I don't think it really has sunk in on you guys. I know Jacobs was not happy.He must have been looking around at the rest of the brain trust and realized he took you guys way farther than intended. And there it is, black and white. On the top? The NINTH COURT OF APPEALS SAN FRANCISCO. It just doesn't get a better pedigree than that! They opened up a nasty little can of smelly worms that went all around the Nicolau. Now you, can act like it means nothing,but this is understandable. You have been led around at will by a lot of pilots who are really way out of their league in this.And expended two million dollars for a complete clarification that favored your opponent! That is your choice to believe Koontz, Johhny Mac and Vasin. But a lot of us were smiling when that came out. You just gave a green light to USAPA with regard to the use of the Nic, and you paid for it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

Yoh Hate:

It was nice to see you at the picketing event, good press coverage, I think I saw your picture, along with the 150 plus pilots who showed up, in the paper and on the news !!!

Oooh, was he the one wearing the outdated, crumpled uniform with the schmutz on the sleeves?

 

[luvthe9]

There is a card drive in progress to get the recall put to a vote. I believe the threshold to force a vote is signatures by 25%+1 of the membership. The West alone can easily achieve that. Truly, the chances of a recall vote succeeding are not so good but it's worth a try.

We relish the opportunity to show you where you stand on the numbers.

 

[767jetz]

You call dumping ALPA and creating USAPA a name change?

Yes I do. The same inmates are running the asylum.

This is a slam dunk case of internal union affairs.

If you say so.

As I said, there really is no useful purpose in endlessly debating this notion, since you are not convincing anyone, and no one is convincing you. There are much better things we could be discussing on this forum, like facts and new developments, rather than rehashing the same old entrenched positions.

 

[luvthe9]

Oooh, was he the one wearing the outdated, crumpled uniform with the schmutz on the sleeves?

Thanks for participating! I thought I saw a west guy there burning his plutonium badge backer. Confirmed!

 

[767jetz]

This is one of my favorite quotes from the 9th........

3 We do not address the thorny question of the extent to which the Nicolau Award is binding on USAPA. We note, as the district court recog-nized, that USAPA is at least as free to abandon the Nicolau Award as was its predecessor, ALPA.

Interpretation is exactly why nothing beyond "Not Ripe" has any legal bearing. Just as USAPA interprets the quote above, and others like it, in whatever way they choose, so can a person submit an equally valid yet opposing interpretation.

ALPA was not free to abandon the award without consent from the west. Therefore, USAPA is "as free to abandon" it as ALPA, which is to say not without consent or agreement from the west. Since there is no more west from which to obtain agreement, USAPA is left with little choice.

 

[luvthe9]

Yes I do. The inmates are running the asylum.


If you say so.

As I said, there really is no useful purpose in endlessly debating this notion, since you are not convincing anyone, and no one is convincing you. There are much better things we could be discussing on this forum, like facts and new developments, rather than rehashing the same old entrenched positions.

If you say so. Funny Jetzz. Justice Tashima says it clearly, and you put a rolleyes on it and say IF YOU SAY SO. What does a UAL pilot please tell wish us to go over on the USAir Forum?

 

[exB717Flyer]

717- your counsel did you a tremendous disservice going down the ripeness path.

First of all, please learn to use more paragraphs for easier viewing.

Second, if you'll recall from the oral arguments last December Jacobs inquired how a case could be both not ripe and stale, that is, past the statutory time limit. I'm sure he had in mind the DFR suit the TWA pilots filed in 2002. In that case the APA revealed their wet-dream list in October, 2001, however, the list wasn't put into effect until April, 2002. The APA was dismissed as a defendant on statutory grounds since more than six months had passed since October. Our appeal argued the statutory date should've been from April. We lost. So you see, there's some uncertainty on this issue and AOL essentially took the safer route by ensuring we didn't wait too long to file. Costly, yes, but no mistake.

But here is what the 9th really did, and this is a real gem. You got them to reveal their opinion of the use of Nicolau.

What don't you understand about the word 'irrelevant'? They can reveal any opinion they like and it has no bearing. A jury decided USAPA was guilty of violating its DFR and the 9th did not and cannot change that.

That is your choice to believe Koontz, Johhny Mac and Vasin.

Johnny Mac and Vasin aren't part of the AOL. But in any case, my choice to support the AOL is an educated one.

You just gave a green light to USAPA with regard to the use of the Nic,...

Really? Where's your wet-dream DOH list? Seriously, where is it? Has the company accepted it and if not, why?

 

[Black Swan]

Interpretation is exactly why nothing beyond "Not Ripe" has any legal bearing. Just as USAPA interprets the quote above, and others like it, in whatever way they choose, so can a person submit an equally valid yet opposing interpretation.

ALPA was not free to abandon the award without consent from the west. Therefore, USAPA is "as free to abandon" it as ALPA, which is to say not without consent or agreement from the west. Since there is no more west from which to obtain agreement, USAPA is left with little choice.

Why thank you Chief Justice 767 Jetzzz! Look at what is written, from start to finshing period. What you said means nothing. I'll take what Tashima said thank you. Unbelievable how you can take a simple statement from a Justice, and at will put your take on it. It says EXACTLY what is says, and NOTHING else, and you know it.

 

[767jetz]

What does a UAL pilot please tell wish us to go over on the USAir Forum?

To name a few, since you asked: The Cleary recall effort. Contract negotiations status. LOA93 grievance. The company's request for clarification. Future DFR litigation. Types of C&R's USAPA is considering.

Notice they are all current topics. But instead, with all the tantrums lately it feels like some people are re-trying and re-interpreting all the water under the bridge. Do you honestly believe any of us on this forum, on either side of the issue, will suddenly change our minds about DFR #1, the 9th ripeness ruling, The statute of limitations, the money spent on litigation so far, the nicolau award, DOH, the RICO case, the reasons for or validity of USAPA's existence? I think we can agree that we are all pretty much set in our positions wrt those things.

 

[Black Swan]

That is SOME integrity guys!

 

[Black Swan]

I'm insensitive for not knowing somebody has cancer? Please. Pickets are about appearances. Somebody should've lent him a jacket.

Maybe he wanted to wear what he had on. Give the guy a break. I've had it with you guys.

 

[767jetz]

Chief Justice 767 Jetzzz!

I LOVE the fact that my name keeps gaining more and more "z's" as time goes on. Now I'm a Chief Justice. COOL! I'm flattered by all the attention. B)

 

[Freebird]

We relish the opportunity to show you where you stand on the numbers.

Does this mean the COWARDLY LEADERSHIP at USAPA is going to "show us" on a contact vote with the NIC, "Where you stand" ?

Usapa = Enjoy your Triple Play Bonus