US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[mikey60]

30 years? In that case, you should be relatively senior, say top 517? Or at least E-190 Captain.

Usapa's giving you a bang alright. Enjoy the ride.



Usapa = Row faster !!!

It was a good ride until we were united with the desert people, now I'm not so sure. I do want you to remember one thing. After the Allegheny-Mohawk

the saying was "the Mohawk merger won't be over till the last 'Hawk is dead". I think I can say the same thing about this one.

 

[nic4us]

How does it feel paying for both sides of the arguement? How is it going to feel to lose both sides of the arguement? The desert is going to green up quick

with all the tears that will be flowing soon.

Hey Mikey,

Ever laugh so hard that you cry? I'm thinking thats how it is going to feel.

 

[Freebird]

It was a good ride until we were united with the desert people, now I'm not so sure. I do want you to remember one thing. After the Allegheny-Mohawk

the saying was "the Mohawk merger won't be over till the last 'Hawk is dead". I think I can say the same thing about this one.

That sir, is a choice that only you can make. With 30 plus years you shouldnt suffer long. By suffer, I mean, suffer long under Usapa's Tyranny.

Your choice. United/Saved what's the difference between friends?


Usapa = Long live the Nic. It keeps Seham and Cleary's pocket full of Dues.

 

[Benz M-100]

You know, Freebird, you TALK a good game...as if you have some sort of special insight or somesuch...but I assure you that there is NO effort of ANY significance to oust USAPA. All of your cute little sayings intimating its imminent demise are purely wishful thinking on your part.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe they are infallible by any stretch of the imagination. NO organization will be without dissenters, but to suggest that USAPA's days here are just about over is patently ridiculous. Your cute little sig lines are UTTERLY out of touch with things in the east and unless there's a HUGE uproar in the east, there won't be any big representational changes. In fact, I predict that even if the LOA 93 grievance is lost, they will STILL be our bargaining unit for quite some time. Enjoy your fantasies.

Cute siglines=articulating fun fantasies for some....

 

[luvn737s]

Benz-

Which east pilot have you been speaking to that would be willing to risk being branded "disloyal" by revealing their doubts about USAPA's potency?

 

[Run Like Hell]

There is slightly under a 50/50 chance that the loa 93 will be in the USAPA pilots favor. The union had no choice but to grieve it.

If the loa 93 ruling is against the pilots they will continue to negotiate with the company for an industry leading contract, the company will have to pay retroactively. Patience, separate operations until a combined contract. The 9th circuit ruling was very important to USAPA, that was the big one.

Sorry to burst your bubble, This company doesn't do retro

 

[Benz M-100]

Benz-

Which east pilot have you been speaking to that would be willing to risk being branded "disloyal" by revealing their doubts about USAPA's potency?

Pretty much every one that I come into contact with. No one is "afraid" of sanctions for being "disloyal" and there are quite a few who are NOT happy with various aspects of how things are being done. That said, NO ONE is in ANY way fearful to speak up if they don't like something and quite a few DO, but very, VERY FEW want to see USAPA off the property. You're as delusional about this subject as your bridy friend.

Have a nice day.

 

[Richard]

Folks,

If you want to have a back and forth between two individual posters, take it to PM -- do NOT clutter the main thread with such bickering.

 

[Captain Underpants]

Can you east pilots not live up to one agreement? Final and binding arbitration it is an easy concept.

Either side can also then renegotiate the pay rates to something different in the next contract. No one will accept this arbitrators decision on pay rates as final and binding...forever.

Yes final and binding is an easy concept as in easy to understand it only lasts until the next agreement supersedes and abandons it.

underpants

 

[Black Swan]

You crack me up! Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

Lucky for the rest of USAPA, you are not in charge of anything at the union level that would assure a ripe DFR case.

As in the ones who actually made it possible will handle it. But remember Jetzz, we always value your input!

 

[Black Swan]

Note to B.S. - I didn't say the USAPA knew the decision, only that they didn't want the decision made public yet. Wonder why if it was a slam dunk as all the chest thumping USAPA supporters have said? Ya know those 3 monkeys - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil? Sounds like the monkey that "hears no evil" has an office in CLT.

Besides, I know the process. Spin everything as good news for the East regardless of what it really is. The 9th's decision (not ripe = USAPA can do what it wants), the LOA 93 decision (delay? what delay? the CIRP team is heading to PHX), attrition (hundreds per year). At least you put one honest remark in there - instead of the steady spin, an admission that it could easily go the company's way. While it could go either way, the transcripts of the arbitration sound like "easily" may be an understatement...

Jim

There was never a request to delay. You are misinformed. There is no way the arbitrator would delay putting out the decision. It is in his hands now. He will release it when he is ready, not when anyone asks him too.

 

[Black Swan]

Bro,

Take the blinders off. Look around. Almost every other property makes more than you. Spirit, jetBlue, Allegiant and so on. You'd get your raise sooner when you stop trying to get rid of the Binding Arbitration Award. (Not that you didnt know this already)


Usapa = Caution, Dead End in 1.2 miles (or sooner).

One question for all of you: if it is binding arbitration, how come it is not binding? Seriously. Someone explain why you cannot make it become reality if it is supposedly set in stone.

 

[Black Swan]

USAPA designed for lawyers, by lawyer, run by lawyers. Seham getting rich off the pilots.

Can you east pilots not live up to one agreement? Final and binding arbitration it is an easy concept.

Say it all you want. You got aced when USAPA come into the picture. This is neither final or binding.

 

[Black Swan]

LOA 93 does not contain pay rates except for E-190 rates. The pay rates are contained in LOA 84 and were temporarily modified by LOA 93 using a negotiated 5 year pay freeze that expired on 12/31/09. The LOA 84 pay rates simply became unmodified by LOA 93 on 12/31/09 when the temporary modification expired. The company is arguing that the pay freeze remains in effect based on their understanding that when the negotiated pay freeze ended the pay rates stay frozen as if the expiration did not exist.

The 3% increase is contained in LOA 84 and is due every May 1st of the status quo period which started on 1/1/10. The company could not pay the 3% increase that was due on 5/1/10 because that would be an absolute admission that the pay freeze expired and was no longer in effect. If the company paid the 3% increase they could only pay it on top of LOA 84 rates not the frozen LOA 93 rates.

I would put the odds of LOA 84 pay rate restoration including the 3% annual increases at 80%. It would be 100% except for the fact that the arbitrator is human and subject to making an erroneous decision. In other words if I write the number 2 on a piece of paper and show it to five different arbitrators four will say it is a 2 and one might say it looks like a 6 to me.

Mr. Kirby could not say anything else because that would be admitting the company is trying to cheat the pilots.

I was told by a lawyer working on the case that regardless of the decision expect either the company or USAPA to challenge the arbitrators ruling in Federal court.

underpants

They cannot challenge this in Federal Court. Totally different from changing representation and the Nic. This WILL stick either way it goes.

 

[Captain Underpants]

They cannot challenge this in Federal Court. Totally different from changing representation and the Nic. This WILL stick either way it goes.

Either side can ask a Federal court to "vacate" the award but the odds of succeeding are almost as bad as the odds of winning a DFR lawsuit. I agree the pay rates established by the decision will stick until renegotiated into the next contract.

underpants