US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

Did Metro or Beoing Boy have a response to what SOLE DISCRETION might mean?

I didn't quote LOA93 at all (though you accused me of quoting only part) since the transition agreement profit sharing language superseded it. However, LOA93 doesn't contain the words "sole discretion" pertaining to dividing up the profit sharing. LOA93 lays out the formula for paying profit sharing with the only discretion being that ALPA may elect to have profit sharing paid to retired and/or furloughed pilots who had W2 earnings for the year the profit was made. I mentioned that USAPA could in theory decide to give profit sharing to only East pilots (per the transition agreement, not LOA93) but would face a ripe DFR suit when the first checks were signed.

Care to take your foot out of your mouth yet?

Jim

ps - even the transition agreement doesn't use the words "sole discretion" no matter how many time you captialize them...

 

[Freebird]

I am not at all sure that this can not be reversed by another vote. We are doing the research as we speak...

Standby for more.

Boeing Driver

hahhaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

How do you spell DFR again?

 

[Black Swan]

Swan,

Remember this update from Johnny Mac!

AWA MEC Chairman's Special Update

July 23, 2007

Fellow AWA Pilots:



East Parity Proposal

As mentioned above, when it had come to our attention that the US Airways MEC directed their officers to contact management in order to obtain immediate contractual parity with us, we immediately ensured that management understood that the West pilots would be outraged if the East was granted parity.........

ALPA Executive Council Meeting #3

I will tell you that I have never been prouder of the AWA MEC. Extreme pressure was brought to bear on our MEC to mitigate the Nicolau Award by ALPA staff, EXCL members and the Rice Committee in an effort to find an easier way out. The AWA MEC made it extremely clear that we understand a joint contract is the key to unlocking the Nicolau Award and were dedicated to finding a solution that would meet the ratification test on both properties,

Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna

AWA MEC Chairman

Hate

Outraged. What INTEGRITY! but hey, give us the profit sharing.......

 

[Freebird]

Apparently Boeing Boy didn't read this.

Whats the matter ladies? Usapa's losing support? Maybe its because they are ineffective.

Here goes the redirect. You can't win on your DOH bid. Now you want to self impose a DFR and use your majority to deprive the minority.

Is Usapa really that stupid?


Usapa = Stupid IS as Stupid DOES.

 

[Metroyet]

Did Metro or Beoing Boy have a response to what SOLE DISCRETION might mean? Does that mean Doug Parker has to give the green light? These guys really play fast and loose with the language. The term RIPENESS was the one that really cost them big. 2 Million Big!This is why we are having the re writes on the 9th. The fast and loose attitude as far as it is used to defend the west and ALPA is what costs these guys over and over.

The T.A. trumps your ragged, old LOA 93. All pilots will get the same profit sharing. Nothing your impotent union can do about it. Thanks for making the west all that money. You know how unprofitable it is out here! More for A.O.L..

Thanks again. Keep up the good work union pilot.

 

[Black Swan]

Whats the matter ladies? Usapa's losing support? Maybe its because they are ineffective.

Here goes the redirect. You can't win on your DOH bid. Now you want to self impose a DFR and use your majority to deprive the minority.

Is Usapa really that stupid?


Usapa = Stupid IS as Stupid DOES.

Lets' see......trumpet the fact you helped divide the two pilot groups on pay, then threaten to sue because you are "damaged" because you make more, never had anything to do with LOA 93, your west operation made possibly nothing of a profit in the operation, but you want to make more off the backs of everyone else, and that is damage. And the association you belong to wants to make the disparaged group whole with regard to pay. Go for it! It's ripe! After all, the west pilots have scored big here already with Jacobs. Leonidas=we give a new definition to the term DFR and ripeness every day! Unfortunately it cost us 2 million........

 

[Freebird]

Lets' see......trumpet the fact you helped divide the two pilot groups on pay, then threaten to sue because you are "damaged" because you make more, never had anything to do with LOA 93, your west operation made possibly nothing of a profit in the operation, but you want to make more off the backs of everyone else, and that is damage. And the association you belong to wants to make the disparaged group whole with regard to pay. Go for it! It's ripe! After all, the west pilots have scored big here already with Jacobs. Leonidas=we give a new definition to the term DFR and ripeness every day! Unfortunately it cost us 2 million........

Nice Redirect Black Swan. You may recall that the East and West chose Nicolau to settle a seniority dispute. Which he did. And you would have had pay parity long ago. Except for the fact that the East continues to try to avoid the NIC (you will lose, Cleary knows it) you all could have had a raise years ago.

Blame yourself.

You and your fellow posters sound like a broken record. $2,000,000: money well spent to keep Usapa in check. Its working.

Usapa = DFR Factory

 

[cleardirect]

Profit sharing was negotiated in LOA 93. Get your facts straight. Long before the west came into the picture. ALPA was free to dispense their portion as they saw to do it. USAPA as the successor entity is also free to internally, without any company input, disperse these funds, as they see fit. You tagged into it SOLELY because of the generosity of the East. You had NO claim to it. You gave NOTHING, HAD NOTHING to do with LOA 93, so this is a total falsehood on your part. Very shortly, the East pilots are going to demand the BPR put this to a vote to all the pilots again. My feeling- the East E-190 F/O 's should be brought to Group 2 F/O pay. Then the rest goes to the East pilots per capita to bring them to parity with the West. With a look back to 5 years ago.Better get very familiar with LOA and INTERNAL UNION AFFAIRS. If there was EVER internal union affairs, this is it. You cannot sue, you cannot grieve this. You are really done on this one. As far as PROFIT? The west generates pretty much nothing. You generate NO profit, yet you think you can claim it. Get lost.

Easy there. Such an angry young man. Why all of the hostility? usapa is winning right? Not ripe, never get back to court. usapa can do whatever they want.

Why so worried about such a small amount of money. LOA 93 starting to pinch. We are talking about a difference of about $1500.00. If the west does or does not get the profit sharing that is spelled out in the T/A.

Things so bad $1.50 an hour spinning you out of control? Thought you were getting LOA 93 wage soon. Where is that BTW?

Why has usapa not been able to get you parity after 2.5 years?

Read the transition. The east agreed to include the west in profit sharing. Taking it back now would be just another deal that the east would fail to live up to.

 

[767jetz]

It sounds to me that the TA intends for all pilots to get profit sharing. I am sure USAPA can try to vote to only give the pool to East pilots, but that sounds like an unquestionably ripe DFR if that is what occurs.

Yup. It looks like USAPA can certainly do what they want with the money. But they still have a legal responsibility to represent the west an not just the east. (DFR) It's also clear that the company intended it to be for all pilots, east and west.

 

[767jetz]

Here come all the ALPA defense squad. We got Boeingboy, Metro and Jetzz on high alert for the ALPA defense!!! WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP!

More personal attacks? Have you nothing more in your "arsenal?" So sad. The moderators must be real busy with you guys today.

 

[BoeingBoy]

In one sense, ALPA negotiated profit sharing for all US employees (which now includes the West employees) by being the first to negotiate concessions. It could have just negotiated 3.6% of profits going into a pool for pilots but instead negotiated 10% of profits going into a pool with 36% of the pool going to pilots. That left the other union groups to negotiate their own percentage of the pool with some left for non-union employees.

Jim

 

[767jetz]

based on a formula for distribution to be determined by the Association.

You guys seem to confuse the agreement with the company with the law, which states the union must represent all pilots not just the majority.

From the language you quote, of course USAPA can determine to distribute the profit sharing any way they want. But if it's not done in a fair way, the law will come back to bite you. Once again, the onus is on the union to do what's right or face the consequences. So you are right that USAPA can do whatever they want to. But it's also not likely that the west will get none of it.

 

[Run Like Hell]

Chairman Cleary Addresses the Faithfull (followers)

 

[oscarjazz]

Wow, for not being a pilot here, you sure are quick to the "facts." Except you too, conveniently leave out the SOLE DISCRETION part. Nice try Metro. Call ALPO legal, see if they can help you on the facts next time.

I am quoting from Section VII C of the Transition Agreement. The term "sole discretion" does not appear in that section or anywhere in the document for that matter, so I don't know why you are blabbering on about "sole discretion" or even "SOLE DISCRETION". I did note that USAPA does have the authority to determine the allocation of the profit sharing, but they would be insane to try to deny any profit sharing to the West pilots, remember that USAPA represents all pilots, right??. The document clearly states that all pilots are entitled to profit sharing, it is not a gift from the East to the West. So at your sole discretion, explain to me why an A-320 Captain in the East gets profit sharing and an A-320 Captain in the West does not. That explanation would have to hold up in court.

 

[notsofast]

The RLA does not require the company to ACCEPT anything only negotiate. But there are certain things that the company will not negotiate for. Keeping line bidding. Line in the sand. CoC pay rates, line in the sand. Accepting a made up seniority list with C&R that will get the company sued. Line in the sand.

The Nicoalu vs. DOH with any C&R are so far apart there is no negotiating. Would you guys accept the Nicolau with C&R? I doubt it. So what is there to negotiate. usapa has presented an ultimatum. The NMB will not release on ultimatums.

There are always lines in the sand. You can be the artist of the line in the sand or the observer of its artistic value.