US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

USAPA is the best money we ever spent. No jumping the line.

Hate

A few of you like to say USAPA is the best money you've ever spent. Do you really have ANY idea HOW much money USAPA has cost you? The regular dues, (which are twice as expensive as promised years ago) don't even register as an expense when you calculate the total damage. USAPA has cost your pilot group over a quarter of a BILLION dollars in w2 earning. That's assuming the Kirby proposal. We all know it would have gone at least 10% higher than that. Add in the work rules, vacation, sick leave, sched. et. al. and now throw in the time value of money and USAPA has cost each and every one of you a minimum of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

That's the best money you've ever spent? You guys took the ball and went home. You walked out of negotiations because you believe Bradfords' and Sehams lies. If you choose to flush away your financial futures on lies and false hope, knock yourself out. The real tragedy is the innocent West pilots that are held hostage to this epic juvenile tirade. If there's any Justice, they'll be made whole someday by the perpetrators of this thieving scheme.

 

[luvn737s]

Westies,

There is nothing to put to a vote! This isn't Mesa/Trans States or some dirt bag non-sked. It isn't your AWA. Team Tempe doesn't want a contract. A contract will cost them big bucks. Dougie and Scottie realize they are dealing with a different group than the faithful ALPA boys. Contracts take a very long time to complete.

Yeah, this isn't Spirit Airlines, who actually followed the rules through to their completion and were rewarded handsomel;y for it.

There's a long list of airlines that this place isn't.

But dump USAPA and with some hard work to undue their screwups, it could be!

 

[nic4us]

Westies,

There is nothing to put to a vote!

Hate

Did you finally figure out that by electing usapa, the east gave up their ability to have a vote regarding the Nic?

Single carrier status you know. One vote, one contract, one arbitrated integrated seniority list. I would have thought Seham would have known how this all works.

 

[N924PS]

Westies,

There is nothing to put to a vote! This isn't Mesa/Trans States or some dirt bag non-sked. It isn't your AWA. Team Tempe doesn't want a contract. A contract will cost them big bucks. Dougie and Scottie realize they are dealing with a different group than the faithful ALPA boys. Contracts take a very long time to complete. Sit back and relax we are on the NMB timeline. Your X-BOX generation will not reach the next level..........too bad. The best thing that could happen to you guys out west would be a split off. Practice up that brick yard call sign.

USAPA is the best money we ever spent. No jumping the line.

Hate

You really should get out more Hate, and meet some of the West Pilots. I think you would find that, although they do have a few "X-Box" generation pilots age wise, plenty of them probably learned to fly before you did.

Most of your posts are exemplary of why the West probably has a good chance of winning the next level. Because they are not being represented fairly, plain and simple. The C&R's that the merger committee (RM?) concocted clearly favor the East pilots. A DOH list sends the West pilots to the back of the line, never mind holding the place they already have.

In case you haven't been out much on the line while performing your USAPA propaganda job, you may have already noticed that "Brickyard" is flying plenty of the old mainline flying and that the guy in the left seat has your job and makes more money than you do. Check out the latest LGA "expansion", how much mainline?

I don't disagee with you on the point that Tempe really doesn't want a contract. And everything USAPA has done has played right into their hands to allow them to play keep away.

As the Spirit pilots demonstrated, you have to have unity and plenty of it to obtain the elusive industry standard contract.
It doesn't exist on this property and never will as long as it's East vs. West. Unfortunately, thats exactly the way the USAPA leaders want it. Don't blame it on the NMB timeline.

 

[notsofast]

Westies,

There is nothing to put to a vote!
Hate

There is no offer from the company, you are correct hate2fly. The West wants this so bad, it is the only way the Nicolau would pass, they are keenly aware of this.

I heard the Nicolau sits on a shelf in Elvis' house, if you find Elvis, you will find your Nic award.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I heard the Nicolau sits on a shelf in Elvis' house, if you find Elvis, you will find your Nic award.

Really, because the Nic will be coming back to the Dist. of Az federal court in the near future. Looks like there's many in the legal system who want to hear what ole Nic has to say.

 

[luvn737s]

Luvn,

If you were so good at predictions, I'd have to ask why are you resigned to just being an ordinary line pilot.

Ordinary? What pilot considers himself ordinary???!!

But I am a pretty fair historian and since history repeats itself, the bet on predictions is pretty well hedged.

 

[luvn737s]

Anyone heard about the LOA93 arbitration results? Is it time for yet ANOTHER union name change?

 

[notsofast]

Really, because the Nic will be coming back to the Dist. of Az federal court in the near future. Looks like there's many in the legal system who want to hear what ole Nic has to say.

The Judge in the AZ Federal Court wasted 1.8 million dollars of your legal fees already. Good strategy.

If you feel that many in the legal system wanted to hear what Mr Nicolau had to say along with the "ALPA pilot neutrals", why did your crack legal team fight the release of this information the first time you were in AZ federal court? (rhetorical question)

 

[aquagreen73s]

The Judge in the AZ Federal Court wasted 1.8 million dollars of your legal fees already. Good strategy.

The rules of evidence say otherwise. Most of the money was spent gathering evidence and there was plenty of good stuff . . like the Bradford memo telling other East pilots to not state outright that the sole reason for forming USAPA was to circumvent the arbitration. All that evidence comes right back in for DFR II. Are you going to put Sully back on the stand to talk about integrity? His concocted story was quite amusing, especially when question number one from Marty Harper was whether integrity meant honoring one's agreements.

If you feel that many in the legal system wanted to hear what Mr Nicolau had to say along with the "ALPA pilot neutrals", why did your crack legal team fight the release of this information the first time you were in AZ federal court? (rhetorical question)

The neutrals had no legal bearing on the outcome of the arbitration. Therefore, their statements carried no legal weight and had no reason to be before the jury. But the West could care less. All Brucia said on the East behalf was that East pilots recalled after the PID date should have been slotted. Nevermind that made no sense since the point of having a PID was to take a snapshot at a point in time and stick with it. Also, read the last paragraph where your guy Brucia praises Nicolau!

 

[CallawayGolf]

The Judge in the AZ Federal Court wasted 1.8 million dollars of your legal fees already. Good strategy.

If you feel that many in the legal system wanted to hear what Mr Nicolau had to say along with the "ALPA pilot neutrals", why did your crack legal team fight the release of this information the first time you were in AZ federal court? (rhetorical question)

And how much of your money did USAPA waste? If the NIC cannot be implemented without ratification, and the East pilots are so sure that ratification will not occur with NIC as the section 22 list, then why not just negotiate in good faith and put a TA out for a vote? This would have been a no-cost solution to not violating the DFR requirement and it would have kept both sides out of court. Add to that the RICO and the LOA93 grievance and you’ve got yourself one massive black hole of legal expenditures that could have and should have been avoided. It’s not surprising though, if you let an unscrupulous lawyer who bills by the hour act as the defacto head of the union and chief decision maker, then you are bound to run up massive legal bills pursuing futile causes that only enrich the guy skimming bucketfuls of money off the top. And what did you get for all of these legal expenditures? Stated another way, just how much has the average east pilot increased in earning power in the 2+ years since USAPA came on the property versus the status quo?

 

[aquagreen73s]

the cost to the west is one month's differences pay between east and west for captains, and two months for F/Os. Heck, we can afford six DFR trials a year and still be better off than the East as we'd actually have work rules and vacation that are reasonable.

 

[nic4us]

The Judge in the AZ Federal Court wasted 1.8 million dollars of your legal fees already. Good strategy.

You east posters crack me up. The West spends $1.8 mil to usapa's $7.0 mil, the outcome of which is that the Nic will ultimately be used in any joint contract at LCC, but it is the AZ Federal Court that wasted money.

 

[AWE Dog]

And how much of your money did USAPA waste? If the NIC cannot be implemented without ratification, and the East pilots are so sure that ratification will not occur with NIC as the section 22 list, then why not just negotiate in good faith and put a TA out for a vote? This would have been a no-cost solution to not violating the DFR requirement and it would have kept both sides out of court. Add to that the RICO and the LOA93 grievance and you’ve got yourself one massive black hole of legal expenditures that could have and should have been avoided. It’s not surprising though, if you let an unscrupulous lawyer who bills by the hour act as the defacto head of the union and chief decision maker, then you are bound to run up massive legal bills pursuing futile causes that only enrich the guy skimming bucketfuls of money off the top. And what did you get for all of these legal expenditures? Stated another way, just how much has the average east pilot increased in earning power in the 2+ years since USAPA came on the property versus the status quo?

Callaway, The legal money is a easy one, the west helps us with every paycheck. We don't need to do the cheesy badge backer thing.

 

[notsofast]

The rules of evidence say otherwise. Most of the money was spent gathering evidence and there was plenty of good stuff . . like the Bradford memo telling other East pilots to not state outright that the sole reason for forming USAPA was to circumvent the arbitration.



The neutrals had no legal bearing on the outcome of the arbitration. Therefore, their statements carried no legal weight and had no reason to be before the jury. But the West could care less. All Brucia said on the East behalf was that East pilots recalled after the PID date should have been slotted. Nevermind that made no sense since the point of having a PID was to take a snapshot at a point in time and stick with it. Also, read the last paragraph where your guy Brucia praises Nicolau!

Brucia is a pilot for Continental Airlines. John Prater at that time, President of ALPA currently, along with Brucia were part of the board of pilot representatives for The Independent Association of Continental Pilots. They were an essential part of the IACP, that was responsible for bringing ALPA back on the property. Brucia, ALPA pilot "nuetral", by Praters orders, is your modern day Byebee.

Their statements had no effect on the case, besides their attempt at being a spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. Window dressing.