US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[BoeingBoy]

Loss of the defined benefit pension provided enough incentive for East pilots to hang on, unlike the AA pilots who still have their DB pension. Medical disability has been as big or bigger reason for attrition as time has passed since the retirement age change.

East is just doing what it has done every time it's furloughed pilots - not recalling until it becomes absolutely necessary to keep the operation running.

Jim

 

[biggie smalls]

psw737,

Mandatory age 65 retirements start December 13, 2012. We in the east have pilots with full sick banks. Assume someone gets sick in their last 18 months at age 63.5 and they have a full sick bank. That will give them full pay until the last day. I haven't flown with many guys that are going to leave here with sick balances. As of July of next year starts the clock on the last 18 months.

The east is extremely short of crews right now and there have been consistant 90/95 hour months for years now. The flight time duty time changes are going to be a problem for this outfit. The training department will have to grow and that takes many months to ramp up. The ramp up for age 65 retirements will have to happen at least six months before December 2012. In the east when we have a Big Bus Captain retire it triggers so many training events. The attrition train is getting ready to depart the station. We are also dealing with age 60 issues in the International operations which requires the company to have additional pilots. Team Tempe so far has been behind the power curve in staffing and it will soon be a problem.

The training float going forward will not end for the next 15 years in the east. We lose more than 2800 pilots back east in the next 14 years due to age 65. Recalls have started and if the company is smart they will start hiring off the street in the spring, so that new hire pilots are trained for the 2011 summer flying schedule. 2012 will be here before you know it and all of us in the east are getting older.

Hate

Hate,

Hopefully the company can see the big picture and bring all the furlough guys back asap........

 

[psw737]

psw737,

Mandatory age 65 retirements start December 13, 2012. We in the east have pilots with full sick banks. Assume someone gets sick in their last 18 months at age 63.5 and they have a full sick bank. That will give them full pay until the last day. I haven't flown with many guys that are going to leave here with sick balances. As of July of next year starts the clock on the last 18 months.

The east is extremely short of crews right now and there have been consistant 90/95 hour months for years now. The flight time duty time changes are going to be a problem for this outfit. The training department will have to grow and that takes many months to ramp up. The ramp up for age 65 retirements will have to happen at least six months before December 2012. In the east when we have a Big Bus Captain retire it triggers so many training events. The attrition train is getting ready to depart the station. We are also dealing with age 60 issues in the International operations which requires the company to have additional pilots. Team Tempe so far has been behind the power curve in staffing and it will soon be a problem.

The training float going forward will not end for the next 15 years in the east. We lose more than 2800 pilots back east in the next 14 years due to age 65. Recalls have started and if the company is smart they will start hiring off the street in the spring, so that new hire pilots are trained for the 2011 summer flying schedule. 2012 will be here before you know it and all of us in the east are getting older.

Hate

Hate,
I hope all this happens and happens soon. I'm coming up on my 2nd anniversary of being furloughed in the next couple weeks, I would really like to be back to work soon!

 

[Hate2fly]

Hate,

Hopefully the company can see the big picture and bring all the furlough guys back asap........

biggie smalls,

I love the name! I am with you on bringing back all the furloughed pilots. The place to be will be the east operation with the attrition. They will have to hire 20 pilots a month at a minimum just to keep up with age 65 retirements.

Hate

 

[Hate2fly]

Hate,
I hope all this happens and happens soon. I'm coming up on my 2nd anniversary of being furloughed in the next couple weeks, I would really like to be back to work soon!

psw737,

We all want you guys back on the property ASAP. The movement up the list for you guys should be rapid.

Hate

 

[A320 Driver]

The feelings were solidified years ago, when you reneged on arbitration, walked out of negotiations, started suing west pilots.....
You get my drift. Feelings can't get any worse. Your snarking won't lighten things up any.

I didn't renege on, walk out on, or sue ANYBODY. You don't even know me. And you have NO IDEA how bad things can get. As I've said before...I consider DOH and the Nic equally toxic and I consider those who push those two points equally shortsighted.

If you think you can shame or browbeat a majority of the East pilots into voting for a contract that contains the Nic, you are woefully misinformed.

Driver <_<

 

[mikey60]

I think this is the feeling of everyone I've talked to in the East.

 

[luvn737s]

biggie smalls,

I love the name! I am with you on bringing back all the furloughed pilots. The place to be will be the east operation with the attrition. They will have to hire 20 pilots a month at a minimum just to keep up with age 65 retirements.

Hate

Take off the pink shades! When USAPA jumps at Parker's crummy contract (but has DOH, just this once to see if it passes) and he hooks the easties, he will shed aircraft so fast the drone of jets from PHL and CLT to the boneyard will be deafening!

20 a month! Guess again!

 

[Hate2fly]

Take off the pink shades! When USAPA jumps at Parker's crummy contract (but has DOH, just this once to see if it passes) and he hooks the easties, he will shed aircraft so fast the drone of jets from PHL and CLT to the boneyard will be deafening!

20 a month! Guess again!

luvn,

You still don't get it! Nobody back east is going to jump on a crummy contract. With an average age back here of 58 plus years old....you think this group would bite on a bs contract. We may never have a joint contract. Team Tempe will have to fork over 400/500 million bucks per year to get it done. Separate operations is really the way to go. We still have our LOA93 Pay restoration decision coming soon. PBGC law suit is looking good. The attrition train is about to leave the station and all the east pilots have first class seat assignments. Enjoy your AWA cactus operation. You guys out west are already flying 24% of our east flying. Learn to live with what you have, it is all you are ever going to get!

Hate

 

[mikey60]

Take off the pink shades! When USAPA jumps at Parker's crummy contract (but has DOH, just this once to see if it passes) and he hooks the easties, he will shed aircraft so fast the drone of jets from PHL and CLT to the boneyard will be deafening!

20 a month! Guess again!

At least you can see something otta' pink shades, those blinders the west is is wearing is blocking them from reality. The "nic" is dead and they are going to live with DOH. LIKE IT OR NOT.

 

[biggie smalls]

Take off the pink shades! When USAPA jumps at Parker's crummy contract (but has DOH, just this once to see if it passes) and he hooks the easties, he will shed aircraft so fast the drone of jets from PHL and CLT to the boneyard will be deafening!

20 a month! Guess again!

This is the negativity nobody wants, maybe you need to put on your shades to know the facts, the Nic is dead, lets move on.

 

[cleardirect]

Well, holding the East pay down was not a smart move either. Anyway, you want to see how bad it is for airline pilots. Just spoke with a friend of mine whose son is a CLT controller. 6 yrs in 29 yrs old 139k a year.

What is the excuse now?

USAPA has been in charge for 2 years. The west has no say. So why has usapa not been able to get pay parity?

Could it be that you just like to blame the west for your failures? The west was on board getting the east par parity. Remember the coast to coast pickets?
We withdrew our support when yo guys had your tantrum over the Nicolau. But either way do you think that Parker listened to the west and did not give you parity?

He does not listen to the west now. Have usapa step up and get it. Oh that's right LOA 93 is just around the corner. Oh wait that's right BPR meeting tomorrow. Subject

LOA 93 Grievance/Arbitration update

What could this update be about? Final paper filed in June anything happen since then? 60 days is about the right time frame for a decision. Do you think that if usapa had won they would hold that news? Nope it would have been blasted right away. My guess is the BPR is going to be informed and told to keep it quiet.

Let my try my spin.

It was ALPA's fault.
The company lied to the arbitrator.
The arbitrator is senile.
The arbitrator does not like east pilots.
The arbitrator does not know how to read contract language.
We were betrayed by our own.
It is the west's fault.

 

[surfer305]

Take off the pink shades! When USAPA jumps at Parker's crummy contract (but has DOH, just this once to see if it passes) and he hooks the easties, he will shed aircraft so fast the drone of jets from PHL and CLT to the boneyard will be deafening!

20 a month! Guess again!

You won't be loving the 737 by the end of the year, they will be all gone just like the Nic. Live in the now, if you can't acknowledge that the company is short and will have to continue recalling and hire by next summer, you will be begging for some pink shades to see the big picture.

 

[cleardirect]

At least you can see something otta' pink shades, those blinders the west is is wearing is blocking them from reality. The "nic" is dead and they are going to live with DOH. LIKE IT OR NOT.

If the Nic is dead what did the company just file a law suit about? Maybe you think that company lawyers don't know what they are talking about either.

Seham is the only one that fully understands this case.

Keep on believin!!!

The Nic is not dead. Do you have a piece of paper or court ruling that states that fact?

 

[luvn737s]

luvn,

You still don't get it! Nobody back east is going to jump on a crummy contract. With an average age back here of 58 plus years old....you think this group would bite on a bs contract.

Oh, I'm pretty sure I get it. The east can't escape their history.

Even though the "average" may be 58, there are enough who would jump on the bait (at Cleary's recommendation - "We need to secure the integration with significant increases in pay rates, then fine tune improvements in the next negotiations"[expected]) to jam a contract. The Powerbait will be a signing bonus that will go away if voted down. The upgrading F/O's will like to sweeten their upgrades with higher rates and the super senior have nothing to lose with a yes vote. Junior F/O's , well they're under the bus as usual.

You'd love to argue that I'm wrong, but even Cleary knows I'm right. There will be no strike vote, so the only alternative is a lousy contract that will result in fleet shrinkage (double dip - cone or dish?).

East - so predictable.