US Pilots Labor Discussion 8/11- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[NYGiantsFan90]

That was 94, US took delivery of new Boeings after that, 757s were delivered as late at 1997.

 

[notsofast]

Yes. What Parker says at an alpa dinner to placate his new employees differs significantly from the financial facts at the time. Nicolau used the published financials to help make his decision. Go figure.

What did Mr Bloch use.

Mr Bloch's findings

 

[notsofast]

The West is acting carnivorousness complaining about USAPA's carnivore response.

 

[cleardirect]

The dispute ended yesterday when the power of contract law overcame US Airways' attempt to wiggle out of its contractual obligations.

It seems that it does not matter if it is east management or east pilots. None of you know how to honor your commitments.

 

[BoeingBoy]

What did Mr Bloch use.

If you think that's pertinent maybe you should have been a dispatcher. You'll notice that both he and Nic said (paraphrasing) that each seniority integration case rests on it's own merits when determining what is fair and equitable. Block even said that DOH was not always fair and equitable (so much for the "gold standard").

Both Block and Nic used the balance of equities to determine how the lists would be merged. For the dispatchers, those on the West side would be getting a significant raise and other contractual benefits to offset the DOH integration that favored the East dispatchers. In the case of the pilots, the balance of equities favored a relative position integration (except for the widebody captain positions) since the East pilots would be getting the lion's share of contract improvements. It's important to note that the dispatchers, unlike the pilots, have one payscale based on only DOH/LOS. So for the dispatchers, using DOH didn't affect their pay by itself. For the pilots, one's position on the list determines pay - the bottom active East pilot had 16 years or so but wasn't getting TOS A330 captains pay - so moving East pilots further up the integrated list than they were on the East list gives them assistance in moving to higher payscales that is paid for by West pilots moving lower on the list. Put together, DOH would have given the East pilots all the equities - where's the balance in equities that both arbitrators considered necessary for a fair and equitable integration?

Finally, you'll note that the West dispatchers accepted Block's final and binding award as actually final and binding. The East pilots? They've tried everything to escape the final and binding award.

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

It seems that it does not matter if it is east management or east pilots. None of you know how to honor your commitments.

Big difference here. Boeing and USAPA actually had cases and good counsel. Jacobs is beating a dead horse, better yet, milking a cash cow without merit.

 

[biggie smalls]

Please give details on the 'new duty times that just went into law...'
Haven't heard about them, please give a link or additional details.
Thanks

The FAA new duty times has been reduced to 12 hours duty day, but 121 airlines have one year to implement this, which goes into effect Aug 2011. The company acknowleges that they will need to increase pilots by 20% to accomodate the new duty times. The training department is preparing to increase training instructors by the fourth quater

 

[Al Legheny]

If you think that's pertinent maybe you should have been a dispatcher. You'll notice that both he and Nic said (paraphrasing) that each seniority integration case rests on it's own merits when determining what is fair and equitable. Block even said that DOH was not always fair and equitable (so much for the "gold standard").

Both Block and Nic used the balance of equities to determine how the lists would be merged. For the dispatchers, those on the West side would be getting a significant raise and other contractual benefits to offset the DOH integration that favored the East dispatchers. In the case of the pilots, the balance of equities favored a relative position integration (except for the widebody captain positions) since the East pilots would be getting the lion's share of contract improvements. It's important to note that the dispatchers, unlike the pilots, have one payscale based on only DOH/LOS. So for the dispatchers, using DOH didn't affect their pay by itself. For the pilots, one's position on the list determines pay - the bottom active East pilot had 16 years or so but wasn't getting TOS A330 captains pay - so moving East pilots further up the integrated list than they were on the East list gives them assistance in moving to higher payscales that is paid for by West pilots moving lower on the list. Put together, DOH would have given the East pilots all the equities - where's the balance in equities that both arbitrators considered necessary for a fair and equitable integration?

Finally, you'll note that the West dispatchers accepted Block's final and binding award as actually final and binding. The East pilots? They've tried everything to escape the final and binding award.

Jim

Here is the core of the argument from Block.

The Financial Picture

From the evidence, it is clear enough that the merger with AWA was a meaningful factor in U.S. Airway’s emergence from bankruptcy. Together, the two companies were able to attract investments that, operating alone, they might not have secured. However, West’s claim that U.S. Airways emerged from bankruptcy “only because it [was] acquired by a stronger enterprise”10 is reflected neither in the KPMG audit report (cited by West)11 nor in any other portion of the evidence. Instead, each carrier had something to contribute. Airways, for example, was much larger. It served almost twice as many destinations as AWA and carried twice the number of passengers.12 Airways has substantially more cash on hand, following the merger agreement. AWA, for its part, brought relative success as a low cost carrier operation with a meaningful presence in the Western United States.

Airways’ “fresh start”13 included a series of steps designed to strengthen Airways’ financial situation. Among other things, it entered into concessionary bargaining with its unions, ultimately securing some $1 billion dollars per year in cost reductions. 14 Termination of certain existing defined benefit and other post-retirement benefit plans generated substantial savings.15 A 35 percent decrease in labor cost16 taken together with other cost saving measures, resulted in a positive net operating income for the second and third quarters of 2005, prior to approval of the merger agreement in September of 2005. 17 AWA, for its part, while not in bankruptcy, was attempting to confront what it regarded as a troubled and potentially perilous future, absent the merger, in the face of rising fuel costs and depressed unit revenues as a result of over capacity, among other things. It, too, needed cash.

Like Grandma says...."That which don't kill you makes you stronger."

 

[cleardirect]

Big difference here. Boeing and USAPA actually had cases and good counsel. Jacobs is beating a dead horse, better yet, milking a cash cow without merit.

Really! So if as you say this is a dead horse. Why did the company file a law suit? Just for fun?

Does the company think the Nicolau is dead and usapa can get what they want or do you think maybe the company like the west understand that ripeness is not dead just delayed.

My point was and still is original east employees have trouble living up to their bargains, agreements and obligations.

You have not honor or integrity. Make a deal follow through. Be it the company and contract with aircraft manufactures or pilots and final and binding arbitration.

 

[Suge Knight]

Speaking of group two a/c, straight from thr training department, the next recall class is Oct 4th which all 20 pilots will be going to the EMB190 followed by a Nov 1st class with another 20 pilots all going to group two a/c, due to the new duty times which just went into law three weeks ago.

reserves are running rough and tired, even without new duty times...

 

[Richard]

The next post which makes any mention of who acquired whom, or who bought whom will find themselves in the cornfield for 14 days. It is irrelevant and is no longer to be discussed.

 

[Barrister]

Here is the core of the argument from Block.

The Financial Picture

From the evidence, it is clear enough that the merger with AWA was a meaningful factor in U.S. Airway’s emergence from bankruptcy. Together, the two companies were able to attract investments that, operating alone, they might not have secured. COMMENTS ABOUT ACQUISITION DELETED BY MODERATOR

Airways’ “fresh start”13 included a series of steps designed to strengthen Airways’ financial situation. Among other things, it entered into concessionary bargaining with its unions, ultimately securing some $1 billion dollars per year in cost reductions. 14 Termination of certain existing defined benefit and other post-retirement benefit plans generated substantial savings.15 A 35 percent decrease in labor cost16 taken together with other cost saving measures, resulted in a positive net operating income for the second and third quarters of 2005, prior to approval of the merger agreement in September of 2005. 17 AWA, for its part, while not in bankruptcy, was attempting to confront what it regarded as a troubled and potentially perilous future, absent the merger, in the face of rising fuel costs and depressed unit revenues as a result of over capacity, among other things. It, too, needed cash.

Like Grandma says...."That which don't kill you makes you stronger."

In other words he took into consideration what EAST gave up to keep the ship afloat. Bravo.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[PullUp]

The FAA new duty times has been reduced to 12 hours duty day, but 121 airlines have one year to implement this, which goes into effect Aug 2011. The company acknowleges that they will need to increase pilots by 20% to accomodate the new duty times. The training department is preparing to increase training instructors by the fourth quater

Could you provide a link to the FAA site that outlines the new rules? I looked but couldn't find any verifiable information.
Thanks

 

[BoeingBoy]

Here is the core of the argument from Block.

Only if you want to beat the dead horse of who saved whom. That's one person's opinion based on whatever evidence was presented to him. Other than in his role of being the arbitrator for the dispatchers seniority integration, his opinion carries no more weight than anyone else's. It certainly doesn't make his crystal ball any more accurate than Nic's.

Jim

 

[psw737]

Could you provide a link to the FAA site that outlines the new rules? I looked but couldn't find any verifiable information.
Thanks

I've heard the same info from a source at the FAA. It is going to be a 12 hour duty day, rest will now begin at hotel checkin and duty day begins at hotel checkout. There are a whole bunch of other proposed changes as well such as allowing out and back transcons as long as flight time is less than 10 hours and duty day is under 12. Southwest and JBLU are pushing hard for this from what I hear. The 20% increase in staffing seems high to me, from what I was told most of the 121 carriers are planning on a 6-9% increase instaffing based on the type of flying they do. I'm not sure there is anything official posted yet but was told it will be very soon.